4 ms·

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much

by rafale 5y ago

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can. But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Unpopular opinion, but culture is a bigger factor than most people recognize.

tr_user 5y ago
> I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities Poor whites don't commit more crimes?
throwawaygh 5y ago
> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.
- keewee7 5y ago
  >Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc. How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers?
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    I'd guess a fair number. Literally everyone in Gen X listened to NWA.
    - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
      Every white kid in America listened to Public Enemy and Rage Against the Machine and had the Chronic LP in their CD players. 10 years later, kids the same age were listening to Eminem talk about putting 9 inch nails through his eyelids and killing his mom and somehow we ended up fine.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    > How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers? I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but the answer is a lot.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- rafale 5y ago
  That material gets absorbed differently by the different social spheres. Those FAANG kids might listen to it, enjoy it, maybe as a way to rebel, escape or act cool, but it's not part of their culture. They will grow up to be like their FAANG parents and, in turn, also look down on it. It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. The problem is when it's part of the culture to the point where it's internalized.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. Heh. So convincing. I can definitely tell you're not full of shit /s
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    having grown up alongside lots of people in these communities, this is nonsense. violence in the black community is much more around the economics of the drug trade, poverty, and poor quality/adversarial/under-policing. the drug trade is similarly violent in Mexico, where rap music is not as popular and there are fewer black people. > It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. Sure, "50 cents"
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  This same racist narrative existed back before Rap, at one time it was jazz, it’s their nature or culture. Anything to avoid looking more deeply.
  - rafale 5y ago
    Jazz never glorified crime. Big difference here. You are making a false equivalence.
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      I’m not. It doesn’t matter what jazz is or isn’t. The point is misdirection. I’m not going to argue that Rap isn’t often talking about crime and violence, but rap is a wide genre and quite a lot of it is not violent. The origins of Rap are quite different than what we have today, you might be interested to learn the history of rap and how/why it changed. You might also learn about rap and not cherrypick what fits your narrative. You might understand that alot of rap is about the lifestyle individuals feel forced to live and just about their circumstances in general. This narrative also convieniently ignores the massive audience for pop, gospel and R&B in the same communities you’re discussing as if black people listen to rap and only rap. Regardless biggest consumers of rap are not black people, but in your analysis only black people are unable to overcome the influence of popular entertainment. If rap causes black people to commit crime then country music must certainly cause drunk driving and Call of Duty is why we have school shootings.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        > If rap causes black people to commit crime then country music must certainly cause drunk driving and Call of Duty is why we have school shootings. Also, I guess Marilyn Manson's music actually was responsible for turning young people away from God. Atheism's popularity has grown ever since its debut, and so has the Church of Satan. The numbers don't lie!
heavyset_go 5y ago
> All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime If you're homeless, for example, your mere existence is illegal in many places. You can be arrested and charged for illegal camping and dumping, trespassing, loitering, etc. Panhandling can be heavily policed, too. A wealthy person has no reason to steal food, unless they're the kind of person who gets off on stealing. Someone who hasn't had a meal in 3 days, on the other hand, will become a criminal in order to survive. It's a meme at this point, but this quote still stands: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread".
mclightning 5y ago
I think no sane person would deny that, but culture is shaped by what you have available; monetarily, accessibility, safety and the list goes on. A lot of these factors are dictated by wealth individually and wealth communally as a city.

by rafale 5y ago

tr_user 5y ago

> I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities Poor whites don't commit more crimes?

throwawaygh 5y ago

> But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime. Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc.

keewee7 5y ago
>Funny how upper-middle class kids listen to the same songs and end up working at FAANGs, banks, law firms, hospitals, etc. How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers?
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  I'd guess a fair number. Literally everyone in Gen X listened to NWA.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    Every white kid in America listened to Public Enemy and Rage Against the Machine and had the Chronic LP in their CD players. 10 years later, kids the same age were listening to Eminem talk about putting 9 inch nails through his eyelids and killing his mom and somehow we ended up fine.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  > How many upper-middle class kids listen to Chicago SoundCloud rappers? I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but the answer is a lot.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rafale 5y ago
That material gets absorbed differently by the different social spheres. Those FAANG kids might listen to it, enjoy it, maybe as a way to rebel, escape or act cool, but it's not part of their culture. They will grow up to be like their FAANG parents and, in turn, also look down on it. It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. The problem is when it's part of the culture to the point where it's internalized.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. Heh. So convincing. I can definitely tell you're not full of shit /s
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  having grown up alongside lots of people in these communities, this is nonsense. violence in the black community is much more around the economics of the drug trade, poverty, and poor quality/adversarial/under-policing. the drug trade is similarly violent in Mexico, where rap music is not as popular and there are fewer black people. > It's not like I never enjoyed 50 cents. Sure, "50 cents"
alphabettsy 5y ago
This same racist narrative existed back before Rap, at one time it was jazz, it’s their nature or culture. Anything to avoid looking more deeply.
- rafale 5y ago
  Jazz never glorified crime. Big difference here. You are making a false equivalence.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    I’m not. It doesn’t matter what jazz is or isn’t. The point is misdirection. I’m not going to argue that Rap isn’t often talking about crime and violence, but rap is a wide genre and quite a lot of it is not violent. The origins of Rap are quite different than what we have today, you might be interested to learn the history of rap and how/why it changed. You might also learn about rap and not cherrypick what fits your narrative. You might understand that alot of rap is about the lifestyle individuals feel forced to live and just about their circumstances in general. This narrative also convieniently ignores the massive audience for pop, gospel and R&B in the same communities you’re discussing as if black people listen to rap and only rap. Regardless biggest consumers of rap are not black people, but in your analysis only black people are unable to overcome the influence of popular entertainment. If rap causes black people to commit crime then country music must certainly cause drunk driving and Call of Duty is why we have school shootings.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > If rap causes black people to commit crime then country music must certainly cause drunk driving and Call of Duty is why we have school shootings. Also, I guess Marilyn Manson's music actually was responsible for turning young people away from God. Atheism's popularity has grown ever since its debut, and so has the Church of Satan. The numbers don't lie!

heavyset_go 5y ago

> All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime If you're homeless, for example, your mere existence is illegal in many places. You can be arrested and charged for illegal camping and dumping, trespassing, loitering, etc. Panhandling can be heavily policed, too. A wealthy person has no reason to steal food, unless they're the kind of person who gets off on stealing. Someone who hasn't had a meal in 3 days, on the other hand, will become a criminal in order to survive. It's a meme at this point, but this quote still stands: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread".

mclightning 5y ago

I think no sane person would deny that, but culture is shaped by what you have available; monetarily, accessibility, safety and the list goes on. A lot of these factors are dictated by wealth individually and wealth communally as a city.