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> I have seen the unraveling over the past year in my own neighborhood. In October, about three blocks from my house, a neighbor was shot and killed in a home i

> I have seen the unraveling over the past year in my own neighborhood. In October, about three blocks from my house, a neighbor was shot and killed in a home invasion. About a mile south in the same month, a 15-year-old girl was shot to death in an act of road rage. And just a few weeks ago, a little more than a half-mile west of me, another teenager was fatally shot. What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? > They claim that, by taking money from police and putting it toward social programs, they can eliminate the need for heavy-handed policing in the first place. But the social programs are an afterthought. What matters most to these activists is tearing down the cops, not building up the tattered neighborhoods those cops are charged with protecting. Progressives in the US want an increased federal minimum wage and guaranteed healthcare for everyone. Studies seemed to show mixed results on whether or not this will result in a decrease in overall crime, but now seems like the time to try.

thegrimmest 5y ago
> What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? They would have arrested and imprisoned the perpetrators, who are more than likely to have long criminal histories, after their first offence. People don't often go from zero to armed home invasion. > Progressives in the US want... I'm not sure any of this will work if there's insufficient order as to prevent smash-and-grab robberies and shootings from being a daily occurence. I don't suppose these people are stealing to eat or pay for healthcare. Dollars are best spent incarcerating violent people a la Japan, rather than paying them and hoping they behave themselves. Living in a peaceful society is a right afforded only to those who remain nonviolent.
- confidantlake 5y ago
  The US has an incarceration rate nearly 20 times that of Japan.
  - thegrimmest 5y ago
    Why do you think that is? Would you be willing to accept one of the reasons being a culture which is more tolerant of criminal behavior?
    - confidantlake 5y ago
      I don't know why that is but it is clearly not because they are tolerant of criminal behavior. If the US is more tolerant of criminal behavior wouldn't they have a lower incarceration rate than Japan? If a higher incarceration rate lead to less crime wouldn't the US have less crime than Japan? Clearly our high incarceration rate hasn't fixed criminal behavior. Instead we should look at Japan and other countries with low crime rates to see what they do.
atweiden 5y ago
Just days ago, Jacqueline Avant, the 81 year old wife of music industry legend Clarence Avant, was murdered in the wee hours of the morning in her Beverly Hills home during a home invasion [1]. Police were able to catch the murderer when he (literally) shot himself in the foot shortly thereafter… during a second home invasion in the Hollywood Hills [2]. > What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? What if threatening would-be criminals with prison wasn’t an effective deterrent anymore? Singapore employs corporal punishment [3] in addition to prison, and I’d be interested in reviewing any studies examining whether swift corporal punishment delivered early in life for minor offenses (e.g. bullying) could be shown to prevent future criminality. [1]: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-01/jacqueline-avant-a-philanthropist-helped-unite-the-worlds-of-black-politics-and-entertainment https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-01/jacqueli... [2]: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-06/murder-charges-filed-in-jacqueline-avants-killing https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-06/murder-c... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore
- monodeldiablo 5y ago
  Scotland and Portugal have had success in reducing crime rates by treating crime as a public health issue and focusing their efforts on prevention. If you're genuinely interested in how to build a less violent society, I'd suggest starting your research there. I am unaware of any evidence that early, swift violence is an effective long- or short-term deterrent for crime.

thegrimmest 5y ago

> What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? They would have arrested and imprisoned the perpetrators, who are more than likely to have long criminal histories, after their first offence. People don't often go from zero to armed home invasion. > Progressives in the US want... I'm not sure any of this will work if there's insufficient order as to prevent smash-and-grab robberies and shootings from being a daily occurence. I don't suppose these people are stealing to eat or pay for healthcare. Dollars are best spent incarcerating violent people a la Japan, rather than paying them and hoping they behave themselves. Living in a peaceful society is a right afforded only to those who remain nonviolent.

confidantlake 5y ago
The US has an incarceration rate nearly 20 times that of Japan.
- thegrimmest 5y ago
  Why do you think that is? Would you be willing to accept one of the reasons being a culture which is more tolerant of criminal behavior?
  - confidantlake 5y ago
    I don't know why that is but it is clearly not because they are tolerant of criminal behavior. If the US is more tolerant of criminal behavior wouldn't they have a lower incarceration rate than Japan? If a higher incarceration rate lead to less crime wouldn't the US have less crime than Japan? Clearly our high incarceration rate hasn't fixed criminal behavior. Instead we should look at Japan and other countries with low crime rates to see what they do.

atweiden 5y ago

Just days ago, Jacqueline Avant, the 81 year old wife of music industry legend Clarence Avant, was murdered in the wee hours of the morning in her Beverly Hills home during a home invasion [1]. Police were able to catch the murderer when he (literally) shot himself in the foot shortly thereafter… during a second home invasion in the Hollywood Hills [2]. > What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening? What if threatening would-be criminals with prison wasn’t an effective deterrent anymore? Singapore employs corporal punishment [3] in addition to prison, and I’d be interested in reviewing any studies examining whether swift corporal punishment delivered early in life for minor offenses (e.g. bullying) could be shown to prevent future criminality. [1]: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-01/jacqueline-avant-a-philanthropist-helped-unite-the-worlds-of-black-politics-and-entertainment https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-01/jacqueli... [2]: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-06/murder-charges-filed-in-jacqueline-avants-killing https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-06/murder-c... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

monodeldiablo 5y ago
Scotland and Portugal have had success in reducing crime rates by treating crime as a public health issue and focusing their efforts on prevention. If you're genuinely interested in how to build a less violent society, I'd suggest starting your research there. I am unaware of any evidence that early, swift violence is an effective long- or short-term deterrent for crime.