4 ms·

Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's stil

Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's still very common in large swathes of America. Just looking around for the lowest prices possible, the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. Ammo costs add up quick, as you need to practice with the same shells you hunt with. Working in tech, I can afford to buy higher quality and more expensive things, and the ammunition I use is no exception. But for many people it's not really within their budget. Lead is cheap, it's one of the main reason its used to make projectiles in the first place.

stefan_ 5y ago
Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.
- thghtihadanacct 5y ago
  LoL, if they are subsistence hunting they arent using a machine gun. There wont be lead all over as they shouldnt be taking more than one shot in the first place.
jeffbee 5y ago
Yeah but none of those things are reasons to permit releasing all that lead into the environment. Every bird that you take with lead shot poisons another generation of fish and their predators, which isn't really fair to fish and fishermen. California banned leaded ammunition and as far as I have heard that did not increase the rate of childhood malnutrition or whatever.
- tristor 5y ago
  I'm not advocating that people should use leaded ammunition, so I'm not sure what argument you think you are trying to make? I'm advocating having a bit of empathy for people who don't make tech salaries and buy all their groceries at whole foods. The posted article looks like primarily an anti-gun hit piece, and your reply also reads as an uncharitable take that is placing a lot of blame and responsibility on individuals who, for the most part, are just trying to feed their families.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    I don't see the hit piece aspects of the article at all. Perhaps you did not read it. It seems quite factual and even-handed. Anyway I have a feeling that you are radically over-estimating the size of the subsistence hunter population. It is a vanishingly small slice of what is already a tiny fraction of the American population. Last I heard only 3% of Americans ever hunted, and it was yet another one of those things that has a real strong positive correlation with household income. If you really want to empathize with subsistence hunters then your beef is with wacko preppers. I didn't even notice the price difference when I switched to copper rifle loads but after COVID-19 started the price of a box of rifle cartridges tripled.
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chmod600 5y ago
Why does hunting and practice ammo need to be the same? Is subsistence hunting that precise? And if you can use cheap ammo for practice, then I would guess the price of ammo for actual hunting wouldn't be very significant. A dollar extra per animal or something? I don't really know, just trying to understand.
- robobob5000 5y ago
  different ballistic trajectories. You need to zero your rifle with one ammo type. This may be different for shotguns
  - chmod600 5y ago
    Isn't that for long-range? I guess so, I just didn't know that was a major factor for typical hunters on a budget (who probably have cheap scopes anyway).
- kache_ 5y ago
  A few dollars is make or break for the week for a lot of rural folks. When I was getting my hunting license, speaking to other people there made me realize how much of a (privileged) bubble I lived in.
jabl 5y ago
> the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. That's surprising. In bulk, steel is a fraction of the cost of lead (usually, though at the moment the market seems a bit crazy). Is steel shot seen as a luxury product for hippies with money, or where does the difference come from?
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Supply and demand. Demand is low, for all the reasons mentioned. Lead shot benefits from economy of scale.

stefan_ 5y ago

Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.

thghtihadanacct 5y ago
LoL, if they are subsistence hunting they arent using a machine gun. There wont be lead all over as they shouldnt be taking more than one shot in the first place.

jeffbee 5y ago

Yeah but none of those things are reasons to permit releasing all that lead into the environment. Every bird that you take with lead shot poisons another generation of fish and their predators, which isn't really fair to fish and fishermen. California banned leaded ammunition and as far as I have heard that did not increase the rate of childhood malnutrition or whatever.

tristor 5y ago
I'm not advocating that people should use leaded ammunition, so I'm not sure what argument you think you are trying to make? I'm advocating having a bit of empathy for people who don't make tech salaries and buy all their groceries at whole foods. The posted article looks like primarily an anti-gun hit piece, and your reply also reads as an uncharitable take that is placing a lot of blame and responsibility on individuals who, for the most part, are just trying to feed their families.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  I don't see the hit piece aspects of the article at all. Perhaps you did not read it. It seems quite factual and even-handed. Anyway I have a feeling that you are radically over-estimating the size of the subsistence hunter population. It is a vanishingly small slice of what is already a tiny fraction of the American population. Last I heard only 3% of Americans ever hunted, and it was yet another one of those things that has a real strong positive correlation with household income. If you really want to empathize with subsistence hunters then your beef is with wacko preppers. I didn't even notice the price difference when I switched to copper rifle loads but after COVID-19 started the price of a box of rifle cartridges tripled.

deleted 5y ago

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chmod600 5y ago

Why does hunting and practice ammo need to be the same? Is subsistence hunting that precise? And if you can use cheap ammo for practice, then I would guess the price of ammo for actual hunting wouldn't be very significant. A dollar extra per animal or something? I don't really know, just trying to understand.

robobob5000 5y ago
different ballistic trajectories. You need to zero your rifle with one ammo type. This may be different for shotguns
- chmod600 5y ago
  Isn't that for long-range? I guess so, I just didn't know that was a major factor for typical hunters on a budget (who probably have cheap scopes anyway).
kache_ 5y ago
A few dollars is make or break for the week for a lot of rural folks. When I was getting my hunting license, speaking to other people there made me realize how much of a (privileged) bubble I lived in.

jabl 5y ago

> the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. That's surprising. In bulk, steel is a fraction of the cost of lead (usually, though at the moment the market seems a bit crazy). Is steel shot seen as a luxury product for hippies with money, or where does the difference come from?

voakbasda 5y ago
Supply and demand. Demand is low, for all the reasons mentioned. Lead shot benefits from economy of scale.