4 ms·

Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended

by kache_ 5y ago

tristor 5y ago
Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's still very common in large swathes of America. Just looking around for the lowest prices possible, the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. Ammo costs add up quick, as you need to practice with the same shells you hunt with. Working in tech, I can afford to buy higher quality and more expensive things, and the ammunition I use is no exception. But for many people it's not really within their budget. Lead is cheap, it's one of the main reason its used to make projectiles in the first place.
- stefan_ 5y ago
  Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.
  - thghtihadanacct 5y ago
    LoL, if they are subsistence hunting they arent using a machine gun. There wont be lead all over as they shouldnt be taking more than one shot in the first place.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Yeah but none of those things are reasons to permit releasing all that lead into the environment. Every bird that you take with lead shot poisons another generation of fish and their predators, which isn't really fair to fish and fishermen. California banned leaded ammunition and as far as I have heard that did not increase the rate of childhood malnutrition or whatever.
  - tristor 5y ago
    I'm not advocating that people should use leaded ammunition, so I'm not sure what argument you think you are trying to make? I'm advocating having a bit of empathy for people who don't make tech salaries and buy all their groceries at whole foods. The posted article looks like primarily an anti-gun hit piece, and your reply also reads as an uncharitable take that is placing a lot of blame and responsibility on individuals who, for the most part, are just trying to feed their families.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      I don't see the hit piece aspects of the article at all. Perhaps you did not read it. It seems quite factual and even-handed. Anyway I have a feeling that you are radically over-estimating the size of the subsistence hunter population. It is a vanishingly small slice of what is already a tiny fraction of the American population. Last I heard only 3% of Americans ever hunted, and it was yet another one of those things that has a real strong positive correlation with household income. If you really want to empathize with subsistence hunters then your beef is with wacko preppers. I didn't even notice the price difference when I switched to copper rifle loads but after COVID-19 started the price of a box of rifle cartridges tripled.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chmod600 5y ago
  Why does hunting and practice ammo need to be the same? Is subsistence hunting that precise? And if you can use cheap ammo for practice, then I would guess the price of ammo for actual hunting wouldn't be very significant. A dollar extra per animal or something? I don't really know, just trying to understand.
  - robobob5000 5y ago
    different ballistic trajectories. You need to zero your rifle with one ammo type. This may be different for shotguns
    - chmod600 5y ago
      Isn't that for long-range? I guess so, I just didn't know that was a major factor for typical hunters on a budget (who probably have cheap scopes anyway).
  - kache_ 5y ago
    A few dollars is make or break for the week for a lot of rural folks. When I was getting my hunting license, speaking to other people there made me realize how much of a (privileged) bubble I lived in.
- jabl 5y ago
  > the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. That's surprising. In bulk, steel is a fraction of the cost of lead (usually, though at the moment the market seems a bit crazy). Is steel shot seen as a luxury product for hippies with money, or where does the difference come from?
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    Supply and demand. Demand is low, for all the reasons mentioned. Lead shot benefits from economy of scale.
djrogers 5y ago
You only use one round to harvest an animal, but that round can be preceded by tens or hundreds of rounds at the range, much of which should be with the same load and bullet. It's not just cost - steel and copper bullets expand less, so animals harvested with them can be wounded for longer periods before dying, which many hunters see as unethical.
- voakbasda 5y ago
  It is also worth noting that gun ranges periodically reclaim the lead by digging up their backdrops and recycling all of the spent bullets. The lead will not stay there forever.
oceanplexian 5y ago
There are some practical problems: 1) Steel core ammunition is illegal for use in handguns since its armor piercing. Banning lead without relaxing rules on steel would create legal problems. And in some states steel core is illegal in all types of firearms. 2) Steel is more likely to spark if it hits a rock, for this reason it's banned in ranges out west and National Forest/BLM areas due to the risk of forest fire 3) Ammunition is out of stock everywhere and it would would definitely cause shortages and price people out of the market. There are millions of people who need ammunition not only for hunting but pest control, wilderness self-defense, and so on. 4) Someone more knowledgeable than me may argue this but it may not be as humane in some cases, since lead is designed to tumble and fracture killing the animal instantly while steel is more likely to go right through a target.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > 1) Steel core ammunition is illegal for use in handguns since its armor piercing. Banning lead without relaxing rules on steel would create legal problems. And in some states steel core is illegal in all types of firearms. It wouldn't surprise me if this were the secret goal for some people.
kokanator 5y ago
> Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended This is not a true statement. I started hunting with a $115 shotgun and a $35 license which in turn provided my 1 deer, dozens of rabbits and countless ducks. If I were to take just the deer into consideration compared to lets say the price of pork at $2.99 / Lb. ( not to mention the cost of beef ) One hundred pounds of pork would cost me $299. The deer cost me $150 and I get to keep the gun. No I didn't need a truck, I walked out the door and into the woods. Yes I had to buy ammo but it lasted several seasons and I got to use the gun for the rest of my life. My junior and senior year in school hunting provided all the protein for my family. Of course, just likely anything else, you can make hunting as expensive as you would like it to be.
- ampdepolymerase 5y ago
  Be careful of prions, wild game is not the safest source of protein.
  - nkurz 5y ago
    While in theory you might be correct, do we have any evidence that a human has ever contracted a prion disease from eating a wild animal? I eat wild game, and I'm concerned about CWD, but I don't think there is much cause for alarm yet.

Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended

by kache_ 5y ago

Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended

Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's still very common in large swathes of America. Just looking around for the lowest prices possible, the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. Ammo costs add up quick, as you need to practice with the same shells you hunt with. Working in tech, I can afford to buy higher quality and more expensive things, and the ammunition I use is no exception. But for many people it's not really within their budget. Lead is cheap, it's one of the main reason its used to make projectiles in the first place.

stefan_ 5y ago
Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.
- thghtihadanacct 5y ago
  LoL, if they are subsistence hunting they arent using a machine gun. There wont be lead all over as they shouldnt be taking more than one shot in the first place.
jeffbee 5y ago
Yeah but none of those things are reasons to permit releasing all that lead into the environment. Every bird that you take with lead shot poisons another generation of fish and their predators, which isn't really fair to fish and fishermen. California banned leaded ammunition and as far as I have heard that did not increase the rate of childhood malnutrition or whatever.
- tristor 5y ago
  I'm not advocating that people should use leaded ammunition, so I'm not sure what argument you think you are trying to make? I'm advocating having a bit of empathy for people who don't make tech salaries and buy all their groceries at whole foods. The posted article looks like primarily an anti-gun hit piece, and your reply also reads as an uncharitable take that is placing a lot of blame and responsibility on individuals who, for the most part, are just trying to feed their families.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    I don't see the hit piece aspects of the article at all. Perhaps you did not read it. It seems quite factual and even-handed. Anyway I have a feeling that you are radically over-estimating the size of the subsistence hunter population. It is a vanishingly small slice of what is already a tiny fraction of the American population. Last I heard only 3% of Americans ever hunted, and it was yet another one of those things that has a real strong positive correlation with household income. If you really want to empathize with subsistence hunters then your beef is with wacko preppers. I didn't even notice the price difference when I switched to copper rifle loads but after COVID-19 started the price of a box of rifle cartridges tripled.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chmod600 5y ago
Why does hunting and practice ammo need to be the same? Is subsistence hunting that precise? And if you can use cheap ammo for practice, then I would guess the price of ammo for actual hunting wouldn't be very significant. A dollar extra per animal or something? I don't really know, just trying to understand.
- robobob5000 5y ago
  different ballistic trajectories. You need to zero your rifle with one ammo type. This may be different for shotguns
  - chmod600 5y ago
    Isn't that for long-range? I guess so, I just didn't know that was a major factor for typical hunters on a budget (who probably have cheap scopes anyway).
- kache_ 5y ago
  A few dollars is make or break for the week for a lot of rural folks. When I was getting my hunting license, speaking to other people there made me realize how much of a (privileged) bubble I lived in.
jabl 5y ago
> the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. That's surprising. In bulk, steel is a fraction of the cost of lead (usually, though at the moment the market seems a bit crazy). Is steel shot seen as a luxury product for hippies with money, or where does the difference come from?
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Supply and demand. Demand is low, for all the reasons mentioned. Lead shot benefits from economy of scale.

djrogers 5y ago

You only use one round to harvest an animal, but that round can be preceded by tens or hundreds of rounds at the range, much of which should be with the same load and bullet. It's not just cost - steel and copper bullets expand less, so animals harvested with them can be wounded for longer periods before dying, which many hunters see as unethical.

voakbasda 5y ago
It is also worth noting that gun ranges periodically reclaim the lead by digging up their backdrops and recycling all of the spent bullets. The lead will not stay there forever.

oceanplexian 5y ago

There are some practical problems: 1) Steel core ammunition is illegal for use in handguns since its armor piercing. Banning lead without relaxing rules on steel would create legal problems. And in some states steel core is illegal in all types of firearms. 2) Steel is more likely to spark if it hits a rock, for this reason it's banned in ranges out west and National Forest/BLM areas due to the risk of forest fire 3) Ammunition is out of stock everywhere and it would would definitely cause shortages and price people out of the market. There are millions of people who need ammunition not only for hunting but pest control, wilderness self-defense, and so on. 4) Someone more knowledgeable than me may argue this but it may not be as humane in some cases, since lead is designed to tumble and fracture killing the animal instantly while steel is more likely to go right through a target.

josephcsible 5y ago
> 1) Steel core ammunition is illegal for use in handguns since its armor piercing. Banning lead without relaxing rules on steel would create legal problems. And in some states steel core is illegal in all types of firearms. It wouldn't surprise me if this were the secret goal for some people.

kokanator 5y ago

> Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended This is not a true statement. I started hunting with a $115 shotgun and a $35 license which in turn provided my 1 deer, dozens of rabbits and countless ducks. If I were to take just the deer into consideration compared to lets say the price of pork at $2.99 / Lb. ( not to mention the cost of beef ) One hundred pounds of pork would cost me $299. The deer cost me $150 and I get to keep the gun. No I didn't need a truck, I walked out the door and into the woods. Yes I had to buy ammo but it lasted several seasons and I got to use the gun for the rest of my life. My junior and senior year in school hunting provided all the protein for my family. Of course, just likely anything else, you can make hunting as expensive as you would like it to be.

ampdepolymerase 5y ago
Be careful of prions, wild game is not the safest source of protein.
- nkurz 5y ago
  While in theory you might be correct, do we have any evidence that a human has ever contracted a prion disease from eating a wild animal? I eat wild game, and I'm concerned about CWD, but I don't think there is much cause for alarm yet.