6 ms·

Lead contamination is a bit of a crusade of mine. I'm always frustrated when the topic comes up. People will object to any proposed improvement by saying "I've

by avalys 5y ago

Lead contamination is a bit of a crusade of mine. I'm always frustrated when the topic comes up. People will object to any proposed improvement by saying "I've been doing <XYZ> for 40 years and it hasn't killed me yet!" Yeah, it hasn't killed you, but how do you know you're not 10 IQ points dumber than you could have been?

dhosek 5y ago
It astonishes me that it’s 2021 and they're still selling toys with lead paint and garden hose fixtures with lead in them.
- andrewxdiamond 5y ago
  Where? That’s not really a problem in the US as far as I’m aware
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Surely you don't think each and every product from all those IKEA-named Chinese resellers on Amazon has been closely vetted for lead and other banned components? https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poisoning-2019-8 https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso... > A breaking investigation from the Wall Street Journal revealed that online retail giant Amazon has been selling thousands of products that have failed federal safety tests, including children's toys containing four to 411 times the safe limit of lead.
    - voisin 5y ago
      Is there an at home test to determine if anything you have contains lead?
      - andrewxdiamond 5y ago
        Yes, there are a lot. Don’t buy the overpriced “home” versions. 3M LeadCheck Swabs, Instant Lead Test, 8-Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008BK15PU/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008BK15PU/
  - tristor 5y ago
    > Where? That’s not really a problem in the US as far as I’m aware In the US. A lot of goods that originate from overseas made with metal contain lead in their alloys, and lead paint is often used for white paints in particular. A LOT of goods enter the US market from overseas imports containing lead, and there's no real establish process for testing and validating safety or functionality of these products prior to sale.
  - louky 5y ago
    Garden hoses are lead contaminated, at least the ones I avoided all said 'this product contains lead'. I'm in the US. Quick link - https://turfmechanic.com/garden-hoses-lead/ https://turfmechanic.com/garden-hoses-lead/
    - orangepurple 5y ago
      RV specific hoses are much more expensive and they don't contain lead. It's madness.
  - 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
    I wish. Serious lead reduction efforts only started ca. 50 years ago, regulations were phased in irregularly across a huge variety of industries, applications, and jurisdictions over a long period of time (causing many lead-containing products to simply shift from one supply chain to another), and much of it is effectively on the honor system. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources/consumer-products.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources/consumer-pr... https://uspirg.org/news/usp/recall-toys-still-found-lead-paint-decade-after-virtual-ban https://uspirg.org/news/usp/recall-toys-still-found-lead-pai...
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    It's not really a problem for things made in the US. It's a huge problem for things made in China and then imported into the US.
robobob5000 5y ago
what is the proposed improvement in this case though? There is something weird about this article. It feels like a paid for hit piece from the anti-gun crowd rather than an organic article about lead issues.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  As the article mentions, the simple solution is to use non-lead ammo; which is available but more expensive than lead. Also suggestions ".. include selecting shotguns instead of high-powered rifles, and avoiding acidic cooking ingredients, since acids can dissolve even more of the lead into the food. Additional advice for hunters who use lead ammunition is to avoid shooting the deer in regions of the body with heavy bones, such as shoulders and hips, where the resulting impact scatters more lead into the meat."
- pineconewarrior 5y ago
  Steel shot. Seems pretty straightforward as a solution. The performance is not quite as good and it's more expensive, I assume.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    Steel shot is terrible. I don't know exactly why, but I have seen geese have the feathers blown off of them, you can see them shiver in the sky as they get pelted, and the will wobble and shrug it off. Usually to get just far enough away that they die in a place where they are irretrievable. Lead would stagger them enough that they'd go right down. The newer bismuth and tungsten rounds are almost as good, but at something like $5/round, it's absurd.
    - pineconewarrior 5y ago
      Yes indeed. You have to reduce distance quite a bit to get the same stopping power, due to the difference in sectional density. Furthermore, lead ammunition deforms as it penetrates - steel does not - which leads to less internal damage and a higher rate of target survival.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Ugh, as a kid I grew up fishing shot out of cooked rabbit and pheasant and stacking it up on the side of my plate; or accidentally spitting it out because if you weren't careful you'd crack a tooth. My grandfather goes instantly from 0 to 60 with rage if anyone tries to tell him anything about his hunting (we had hide his ammo when he started getting befuddled). He'll never change. Hopefully younger hunters are aware of just because we did XYZ and it was bad for you means you don't have to do it anymore.
- Kluny 5y ago
  > My grandfather goes instantly from 0 to 60 with rage Classic symptom of lead poisoning, ironically.
  - LeifCarrotson 5y ago
    Had a guy blow up when I indicated I would prefer Teflon tape for sealing pipe threads over his favorite Master's metallic pipe dope. Here's the MSDS: https://www.era-env.com/ERAWcfService/getmsdscontent.svc/?key=JBKg6NDl9o2QBL%2formyuOg%3d%3d&value=kFwJll4enGQ%3d https://www.era-env.com/ERAWcfService/getmsdscontent.svc/?ke... It's basically powdered lead in an alcohol carrier that you wipe on your threads with a brush. At first I thought he was just a grumpy old plumber tired of liberal environmentalist kids with their newfangled safety regulations, but perhaps the lifetime of working with leaded solders and leaded thread sealant has affected him in some way...
literallyaduck 5y ago
This is the insidious thing about lead, those consumers who have been exposed now may be unequipped to rationally evaluate the problem, the risk, the severity and alternatives because of their diminished mental state. Victims of lead based mental illness have the same vote weight that you do.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Your post is a textbook example of a Kafka trap.
mitchbob 5y ago
Are there alternatives to lead for bullets and shotgun shells? If so, it would great to mandate them and keep all that lead out of the environment. We got rid of lead in most fuels; ammunition could be next.
- tristor 5y ago
  Yes, there are alternatives, primarily steel, but it's quite a bit more expensive. For my purposes, I only ever hunt with steel pellet shells, I would never use lead.
  - kache_ 5y ago
    Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended
    - tristor 5y ago
      Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's still very common in large swathes of America. Just looking around for the lowest prices possible, the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. Ammo costs add up quick, as you need to practice with the same shells you hunt with. Working in tech, I can afford to buy higher quality and more expensive things, and the ammunition I use is no exception. But for many people it's not really within their budget. Lead is cheap, it's one of the main reason its used to make projectiles in the first place.
      - stefan_ 5y ago
        Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.
        thghtihadanacct 5y ago
sneak 5y ago
The classically false "that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
hackernews666 5y ago
It doesn't help that there is limited study about casual contact with lead. Most sportsman understand the risks of commercial levels of lead exposure but the occasional contact with the human body or environment is not easily quantifiable or understood.

by avalys 5y ago

dhosek 5y ago

It astonishes me that it’s 2021 and they're still selling toys with lead paint and garden hose fixtures with lead in them.

andrewxdiamond 5y ago
Where? That’s not really a problem in the US as far as I’m aware
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Surely you don't think each and every product from all those IKEA-named Chinese resellers on Amazon has been closely vetted for lead and other banned components? https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poisoning-2019-8 https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso... > A breaking investigation from the Wall Street Journal revealed that online retail giant Amazon has been selling thousands of products that have failed federal safety tests, including children's toys containing four to 411 times the safe limit of lead.
  - voisin 5y ago
    Is there an at home test to determine if anything you have contains lead?
    - andrewxdiamond 5y ago
      Yes, there are a lot. Don’t buy the overpriced “home” versions. 3M LeadCheck Swabs, Instant Lead Test, 8-Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008BK15PU/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008BK15PU/
- tristor 5y ago
  > Where? That’s not really a problem in the US as far as I’m aware In the US. A lot of goods that originate from overseas made with metal contain lead in their alloys, and lead paint is often used for white paints in particular. A LOT of goods enter the US market from overseas imports containing lead, and there's no real establish process for testing and validating safety or functionality of these products prior to sale.
- louky 5y ago
  Garden hoses are lead contaminated, at least the ones I avoided all said 'this product contains lead'. I'm in the US. Quick link - https://turfmechanic.com/garden-hoses-lead/ https://turfmechanic.com/garden-hoses-lead/
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    RV specific hoses are much more expensive and they don't contain lead. It's madness.
- 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
  I wish. Serious lead reduction efforts only started ca. 50 years ago, regulations were phased in irregularly across a huge variety of industries, applications, and jurisdictions over a long period of time (causing many lead-containing products to simply shift from one supply chain to another), and much of it is effectively on the honor system. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources/consumer-products.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources/consumer-pr... https://uspirg.org/news/usp/recall-toys-still-found-lead-paint-decade-after-virtual-ban https://uspirg.org/news/usp/recall-toys-still-found-lead-pai...
- josephcsible 5y ago
  It's not really a problem for things made in the US. It's a huge problem for things made in China and then imported into the US.

robobob5000 5y ago

what is the proposed improvement in this case though? There is something weird about this article. It feels like a paid for hit piece from the anti-gun crowd rather than an organic article about lead issues.

PeterisP 5y ago
As the article mentions, the simple solution is to use non-lead ammo; which is available but more expensive than lead. Also suggestions ".. include selecting shotguns instead of high-powered rifles, and avoiding acidic cooking ingredients, since acids can dissolve even more of the lead into the food. Additional advice for hunters who use lead ammunition is to avoid shooting the deer in regions of the body with heavy bones, such as shoulders and hips, where the resulting impact scatters more lead into the meat."
pineconewarrior 5y ago
Steel shot. Seems pretty straightforward as a solution. The performance is not quite as good and it's more expensive, I assume.
- thrower123 5y ago
  Steel shot is terrible. I don't know exactly why, but I have seen geese have the feathers blown off of them, you can see them shiver in the sky as they get pelted, and the will wobble and shrug it off. Usually to get just far enough away that they die in a place where they are irretrievable. Lead would stagger them enough that they'd go right down. The newer bismuth and tungsten rounds are almost as good, but at something like $5/round, it's absurd.
  - pineconewarrior 5y ago
    Yes indeed. You have to reduce distance quite a bit to get the same stopping power, due to the difference in sectional density. Furthermore, lead ammunition deforms as it penetrates - steel does not - which leads to less internal damage and a higher rate of target survival.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Ugh, as a kid I grew up fishing shot out of cooked rabbit and pheasant and stacking it up on the side of my plate; or accidentally spitting it out because if you weren't careful you'd crack a tooth. My grandfather goes instantly from 0 to 60 with rage if anyone tries to tell him anything about his hunting (we had hide his ammo when he started getting befuddled). He'll never change. Hopefully younger hunters are aware of just because we did XYZ and it was bad for you means you don't have to do it anymore.

Kluny 5y ago
> My grandfather goes instantly from 0 to 60 with rage Classic symptom of lead poisoning, ironically.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  Had a guy blow up when I indicated I would prefer Teflon tape for sealing pipe threads over his favorite Master's metallic pipe dope. Here's the MSDS: https://www.era-env.com/ERAWcfService/getmsdscontent.svc/?key=JBKg6NDl9o2QBL%2formyuOg%3d%3d&value=kFwJll4enGQ%3d https://www.era-env.com/ERAWcfService/getmsdscontent.svc/?ke... It's basically powdered lead in an alcohol carrier that you wipe on your threads with a brush. At first I thought he was just a grumpy old plumber tired of liberal environmentalist kids with their newfangled safety regulations, but perhaps the lifetime of working with leaded solders and leaded thread sealant has affected him in some way...

literallyaduck 5y ago

This is the insidious thing about lead, those consumers who have been exposed now may be unequipped to rationally evaluate the problem, the risk, the severity and alternatives because of their diminished mental state. Victims of lead based mental illness have the same vote weight that you do.

josephcsible 5y ago
Your post is a textbook example of a Kafka trap.

mitchbob 5y ago

Are there alternatives to lead for bullets and shotgun shells? If so, it would great to mandate them and keep all that lead out of the environment. We got rid of lead in most fuels; ammunition could be next.

tristor 5y ago
Yes, there are alternatives, primarily steel, but it's quite a bit more expensive. For my purposes, I only ever hunt with steel pellet shells, I would never use lead.
- kache_ 5y ago
  Hunting is so expensive anyways. What's a few more bucks? Pun not intended
  - tristor 5y ago
    Most families that hunt for meat, including mine, are not wealthy. We are not talking about sport hunters, we are talking about subsistence hunting. It's still very common in large swathes of America. Just looking around for the lowest prices possible, the cost of steel shot is more than double the cost of lead shot for #3 shells (commonly used for waterfowl). For #00 shells (used for deer and medium game) it's more than three times as expensive. Ammo costs add up quick, as you need to practice with the same shells you hunt with. Working in tech, I can afford to buy higher quality and more expensive things, and the ammunition I use is no exception. But for many people it's not really within their budget. Lead is cheap, it's one of the main reason its used to make projectiles in the first place.
    - stefan_ 5y ago
      Geez, wait until they see the bill for cleaning up all the lead in the environment from their shooting.
      - thghtihadanacct 5y ago

sneak 5y ago

The classically false "that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger."

hackernews666 5y ago

It doesn't help that there is limited study about casual contact with lead. Most sportsman understand the risks of commercial levels of lead exposure but the occasional contact with the human body or environment is not easily quantifiable or understood.