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>There's a real possibility here that you're way overconfident and wrong and this overconfidence will blind you from a lot of interesting stuff that's going on.

>There's a real possibility here that you're way overconfident and wrong and this overconfidence will blind you from a lot of interesting stuff that's going on. I'm tempted to start keeping track of how many hundreds of negative comments about crypto HN generates each day, every day. It doesn't really come across as confidence to me.

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arcticbull 5y ago
HN is quite a bit softer on average on crypto than the broader audience. There's a small but confidently vocal minority of us keeping the light on for sanity. You find me one thing, just one thing, that crypto is better at than a traditional solution and I'll be all over it. 14 years and counting. 0 killer apps.
- gonehome 5y ago
  People have mentioned things to you [0], you ignore them and repeat this phrase. So despite what you say, you will not be “all over it”. You have no interest in changing your mind or in engaging in genuine discussion. You won’t even update “14yrs” which is just a clear factual error. [0]: getting wealth out of a corrupt country for one
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > getting wealth out of a corrupt country for one Do you have a concrete example that wouldn't (a) be suitably handled by Wise, Xoom or a wire transfer and (b) isn't out of a sanctioned country and (b) isn't out of a country where the transfer fee would be prohibitive? If so, could you quantify? Is it even good for this? You have to buy the coins from someone else, meaning if you did it domestically you're still net the same level of welfare. If you traded them internationally, you can just buy USD. This is yet another hand-wavey claim, and what I asked for was something concrete, tangible, measurable. > You won’t even update “14yrs” which is just a clear factual error. 2008 to 2022. Just rounding by a couple months. > So despite what you say, you will not be “all over it”. You have no interest in changing your mind or in engaging in genuine discussion. I have no interest in slapping crypto on the back when it hasn't done anything but crime, grift and regulatory arbitrage. Bitcoin is the official currency of the alt-right and yes, it's now older than your average high schooler. [1] Just one, concrete application is all I ask. [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/9/30/22703200/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-andrew-anglin-white-surpemacists-alt-right-richard-spencer-daily-stormer https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/9/30/22703200/bitcoin-cryp...
    - gonehome 5y ago
      Ukraine: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/06/13/why-bitcoin-is-a-silent-protest-against-corrupt-governments-everywhere/?sh=19cf00735421#188214803542 https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/06/13/why-b... Stored wealth, memorized seed words and regenerated on the other side. There was also an interview with someone relying on BTC in Venezuela too because their currency is worse. You’re rounding by multiple years, especially if you consider ETH. Also: https://www.matthuang.com/bitcoin_for_the_open_minded_skeptic https://www.matthuang.com/bitcoin_for_the_open_minded_skepti...
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        > Stored wealth, memorized seed words and regenerated on the other side. Of course its possible for one or two people to benefit but net net the Ukranians either (a) traded amongst themselves in which case the net welfare stayed the exact same or (b) they traded with people abroad in which case they could have chosen literally any asset on earth, many of which outperformed Bitcoin and other cryptos. > There was also an interview with someone relying on BTC in Venezuela too because their currency is worse. An anecdote is not a substitute for data, and Venezuela decided to dollarize, not bitcoinize. 66% of transactions in Venezuela are USD denominated now due to a groundswell of popular support. [1] They didn't bitcoinize. Because the dollar is better. > You’re rounding by multiple years, especially if you consider ETH. I'm rounding by a few months. That there are recent developments doesn't roll forward the clock on launch day. The iPhone launched at the same time as Bitcoin. That's what a killer product looks like. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/venezuela-plans-to-expand-use-of-foreign-currency-bank-accounts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/venezuela...
        gonehome 5y ago
        It’s pointless to continue - you asked for “just one thing” then come up with reasons why the use case I gave doesn’t count. It wasn’t about trading, it was about being able to store value without needing trust in a central authority. It’s hard to get dollars in Venezuela which is why this guy was relying on BTC. I never claimed BTC was superior to the dollar. The iPhone is a product, Bitcoin (really blockchain and programmable money more broadly) is more akin to the web in 1996. It’s a protocol for money. You can believe what you want, the nice thing about economic bets is it doesn’t matter.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

arcticbull 5y ago

HN is quite a bit softer on average on crypto than the broader audience. There's a small but confidently vocal minority of us keeping the light on for sanity. You find me one thing, just one thing, that crypto is better at than a traditional solution and I'll be all over it. 14 years and counting. 0 killer apps.

gonehome 5y ago
People have mentioned things to you [0], you ignore them and repeat this phrase. So despite what you say, you will not be “all over it”. You have no interest in changing your mind or in engaging in genuine discussion. You won’t even update “14yrs” which is just a clear factual error. [0]: getting wealth out of a corrupt country for one
- arcticbull 5y ago
  > getting wealth out of a corrupt country for one Do you have a concrete example that wouldn't (a) be suitably handled by Wise, Xoom or a wire transfer and (b) isn't out of a sanctioned country and (b) isn't out of a country where the transfer fee would be prohibitive? If so, could you quantify? Is it even good for this? You have to buy the coins from someone else, meaning if you did it domestically you're still net the same level of welfare. If you traded them internationally, you can just buy USD. This is yet another hand-wavey claim, and what I asked for was something concrete, tangible, measurable. > You won’t even update “14yrs” which is just a clear factual error. 2008 to 2022. Just rounding by a couple months. > So despite what you say, you will not be “all over it”. You have no interest in changing your mind or in engaging in genuine discussion. I have no interest in slapping crypto on the back when it hasn't done anything but crime, grift and regulatory arbitrage. Bitcoin is the official currency of the alt-right and yes, it's now older than your average high schooler. [1] Just one, concrete application is all I ask. [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/9/30/22703200/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-andrew-anglin-white-surpemacists-alt-right-richard-spencer-daily-stormer https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/9/30/22703200/bitcoin-cryp...
  - gonehome 5y ago
    Ukraine: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/06/13/why-bitcoin-is-a-silent-protest-against-corrupt-governments-everywhere/?sh=19cf00735421#188214803542 https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/06/13/why-b... Stored wealth, memorized seed words and regenerated on the other side. There was also an interview with someone relying on BTC in Venezuela too because their currency is worse. You’re rounding by multiple years, especially if you consider ETH. Also: https://www.matthuang.com/bitcoin_for_the_open_minded_skeptic https://www.matthuang.com/bitcoin_for_the_open_minded_skepti...
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > Stored wealth, memorized seed words and regenerated on the other side. Of course its possible for one or two people to benefit but net net the Ukranians either (a) traded amongst themselves in which case the net welfare stayed the exact same or (b) they traded with people abroad in which case they could have chosen literally any asset on earth, many of which outperformed Bitcoin and other cryptos. > There was also an interview with someone relying on BTC in Venezuela too because their currency is worse. An anecdote is not a substitute for data, and Venezuela decided to dollarize, not bitcoinize. 66% of transactions in Venezuela are USD denominated now due to a groundswell of popular support. [1] They didn't bitcoinize. Because the dollar is better. > You’re rounding by multiple years, especially if you consider ETH. I'm rounding by a few months. That there are recent developments doesn't roll forward the clock on launch day. The iPhone launched at the same time as Bitcoin. That's what a killer product looks like. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/venezuela-plans-to-expand-use-of-foreign-currency-bank-accounts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/venezuela...
      - gonehome 5y ago
        It’s pointless to continue - you asked for “just one thing” then come up with reasons why the use case I gave doesn’t count. It wasn’t about trading, it was about being able to store value without needing trust in a central authority. It’s hard to get dollars in Venezuela which is why this guy was relying on BTC. I never claimed BTC was superior to the dollar. The iPhone is a product, Bitcoin (really blockchain and programmable money more broadly) is more akin to the web in 1996. It’s a protocol for money. You can believe what you want, the nice thing about economic bets is it doesn’t matter.