5 ms·

The few times I thought about moving to America, the thing that ultimately put me off wasn’t healthcare, guns or food, but the utterly hostile immigration proce

The few times I thought about moving to America, the thing that ultimately put me off wasn’t healthcare, guns or food, but the utterly hostile immigration process. It seems that until you get a green card, the state barely tolerates your presence. So nothing to do with the fundamentals, for me anyway.

dnautics 5y ago
well, if I'm not mistaken -- the US' immigration process awfulness pales in comparison, to, say the UK. I believe AUS/NZ have inherited similarly complex, kafkaesque systems. I don't know for sure, because I only have experience with the UK's (and failed to get in despite having a PhD AND having a job with money set aside waiting for me); but I have worked side-by-side with H1B holders who said "it was bad but not that bad".
- CountSessine 5y ago
  The Canadian immigration system, especially if you qualify for the skilled workers program (which most engineers do), is pretty decent overall, and much much better than the awful and outdated US system. I've looked at immigrating to the US and decided it's largely impossible. This largely explains Canada's immigration edge - it certainly isn't societal issues. I'd much sooner have immigrated to the US given the pay and tax differences. I've actually heard good things about the AU system too - apparently Canada considers AU&NZ their biggest competition in attracting immigrants.
  - ska 5y ago
    > it certainly isn't societal issues That seems to be pretty variable; I've met people on both sides of that border that decided against the other one for "societal issues" of various types.
    - CountSessine 5y ago
      If you're poor, Canada is a pretty good deal. If you're middle-class, it's ok. If you're upper-middle-class (top 10% in income) it's better to be in the US.
      - ska 5y ago
        > If you're upper-middle-class (top 10% in income) it's better to be in the US. It's not all about income, and it's really as simple as that. IIRC marginal tax rates in some parts of US are higher than some parts of Canada. So, as usual, it depends. On average I don't think you are wrong, btw - but it's hardly cut and dried.
        ska 5y ago
        > "and it's really as simple as that." Probably obvious, but : and it's really not as simple as that.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Thankfully I never had to navigate (much) the UK process. Sorry to hear about your torments...
- dzonga 5y ago
  well one positive thing about the UK immigration system after brexit it's now much easier and straighforward. sort of points based. much clearer, no h1b lottery to deal with like you would if you were trying to get in the states.
CountSessine 5y ago
It seems that until you get a green card, the state barely tolerates your presence. And good luck even getting to that point. If you have a family, you'll have to live without them for upwards of 10 years while you work alone in the US waiting for your number to come up in the lottery.

dnautics 5y ago

well, if I'm not mistaken -- the US' immigration process awfulness pales in comparison, to, say the UK. I believe AUS/NZ have inherited similarly complex, kafkaesque systems. I don't know for sure, because I only have experience with the UK's (and failed to get in despite having a PhD AND having a job with money set aside waiting for me); but I have worked side-by-side with H1B holders who said "it was bad but not that bad".

CountSessine 5y ago
The Canadian immigration system, especially if you qualify for the skilled workers program (which most engineers do), is pretty decent overall, and much much better than the awful and outdated US system. I've looked at immigrating to the US and decided it's largely impossible. This largely explains Canada's immigration edge - it certainly isn't societal issues. I'd much sooner have immigrated to the US given the pay and tax differences. I've actually heard good things about the AU system too - apparently Canada considers AU&NZ their biggest competition in attracting immigrants.
- ska 5y ago
  > it certainly isn't societal issues That seems to be pretty variable; I've met people on both sides of that border that decided against the other one for "societal issues" of various types.
  - CountSessine 5y ago
    If you're poor, Canada is a pretty good deal. If you're middle-class, it's ok. If you're upper-middle-class (top 10% in income) it's better to be in the US.
    - ska 5y ago
      > If you're upper-middle-class (top 10% in income) it's better to be in the US. It's not all about income, and it's really as simple as that. IIRC marginal tax rates in some parts of US are higher than some parts of Canada. So, as usual, it depends. On average I don't think you are wrong, btw - but it's hardly cut and dried.
      - ska 5y ago
        > "and it's really as simple as that." Probably obvious, but : and it's really not as simple as that.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Thankfully I never had to navigate (much) the UK process. Sorry to hear about your torments...
dzonga 5y ago
well one positive thing about the UK immigration system after brexit it's now much easier and straighforward. sort of points based. much clearer, no h1b lottery to deal with like you would if you were trying to get in the states.

CountSessine 5y ago

It seems that until you get a green card, the state barely tolerates your presence. And good luck even getting to that point. If you have a family, you'll have to live without them for upwards of 10 years while you work alone in the US waiting for your number to come up in the lottery.