4 ms·

> For many people there is no hope for a future. What is the object of that hope? I.e., what are people hoping for in the future? (Yes, this is a bit of a va

> For many people there is no hope for a future. What is the object of that hope? I.e., what are people hoping for in the future? (Yes, this is a bit of a vague question that requires a lot of speculation. If you're willing, humor me?)

honkycat 5y ago
A safe and secure world for their children to flourish in.
- sjwalter 5y ago
  I think that's part of the problem. I think we're already living in incredibly safe times, and a focus on even more safety and security is what's causing some good chunk of the malaise we're all experiencing. I want my kids to increasingly face more insecurity and unsafety. This way they become more and more resilient and able to deal with the future without me.
  - honkycat 5y ago
    "the suburbs dream of violence. Asleep in their drowsy villas, sheltered by benevolent shopping malls, they wait patiently for the nightmares that will wake them into a more passionate world." I want you to reach out to someone who has experienced violence in their community and ask them how it made them a stronger more capable person. There are plenty. They probably will not be the "real man" you are envisioning. The worst people to meet on the battlefield in the past? It wasn't the "resilient" professional soldiers who lived through tough times. It was the kings and princes training in comfort, decked out in their armor worth a fortune surrounded by their expensive personal guard. Everyone else suffered. "hard times make hard men" is not a coherent worldview. It is propaganda to cast "other" people as effete in order to convince you some other group of people are "real men". You know. The ones who do all the exact same shit as the "girly men" but are also willing to sell you overpriced supplements and coffee. "I want my kids to increasingly face more insecurity and unsafety." What a joke. I hope your children are never unsafe and you never have to learn what a foolish thing this is to say.
    - sjwalter 5y ago
      I never said violence. It's like this: I'm originally from Ontario. Every year, a few drunk teenagers drown while boating. It's a big tragedy, and I'd hate it if it happened to my kids. Now, Ontario's politicians respond predictably to this, every year: A call for more safety. This comes in the form of stricter regulations and more enforcement. Now what it means is that whenever my family and I take the boat out for a spin, more than half the time we're stopped by police boats who have to check yes, we have our safety gear, no we haven't been drinking, no that's not pot you smell. And yet, a few teenagers die drinking while boating that same year. We'll never live in a zero-risk world, and what I desire is an acceptance of that. My kids ride dirtbikes and hang out with livestock and shoot guns. They do all manner of dangerous things. More kids and more people should all do this and stop living in some dreamworld where the government makes them safe.
ridgeguy 5y ago
I'll try - Top level: reliable access to a home, food and clean water, education, medical care, employment. Doesn't cover everyone's want list, but to many of us, a future without those feels a lot different from one with them.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
That’s an interesting direct question, because it definitely depends on one’s worldview. E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_(virtue)#Overview https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_(virtue)#Overview covers a religious view, but I would also be interested if there were writings by secular folks in the current context of complete nihilism (which seems to have the ‘don’t ask that question’ approach to life).

honkycat 5y ago

A safe and secure world for their children to flourish in.

sjwalter 5y ago
I think that's part of the problem. I think we're already living in incredibly safe times, and a focus on even more safety and security is what's causing some good chunk of the malaise we're all experiencing. I want my kids to increasingly face more insecurity and unsafety. This way they become more and more resilient and able to deal with the future without me.
- honkycat 5y ago
  "the suburbs dream of violence. Asleep in their drowsy villas, sheltered by benevolent shopping malls, they wait patiently for the nightmares that will wake them into a more passionate world." I want you to reach out to someone who has experienced violence in their community and ask them how it made them a stronger more capable person. There are plenty. They probably will not be the "real man" you are envisioning. The worst people to meet on the battlefield in the past? It wasn't the "resilient" professional soldiers who lived through tough times. It was the kings and princes training in comfort, decked out in their armor worth a fortune surrounded by their expensive personal guard. Everyone else suffered. "hard times make hard men" is not a coherent worldview. It is propaganda to cast "other" people as effete in order to convince you some other group of people are "real men". You know. The ones who do all the exact same shit as the "girly men" but are also willing to sell you overpriced supplements and coffee. "I want my kids to increasingly face more insecurity and unsafety." What a joke. I hope your children are never unsafe and you never have to learn what a foolish thing this is to say.
  - sjwalter 5y ago
    I never said violence. It's like this: I'm originally from Ontario. Every year, a few drunk teenagers drown while boating. It's a big tragedy, and I'd hate it if it happened to my kids. Now, Ontario's politicians respond predictably to this, every year: A call for more safety. This comes in the form of stricter regulations and more enforcement. Now what it means is that whenever my family and I take the boat out for a spin, more than half the time we're stopped by police boats who have to check yes, we have our safety gear, no we haven't been drinking, no that's not pot you smell. And yet, a few teenagers die drinking while boating that same year. We'll never live in a zero-risk world, and what I desire is an acceptance of that. My kids ride dirtbikes and hang out with livestock and shoot guns. They do all manner of dangerous things. More kids and more people should all do this and stop living in some dreamworld where the government makes them safe.

ridgeguy 5y ago

I'll try - Top level: reliable access to a home, food and clean water, education, medical care, employment. Doesn't cover everyone's want list, but to many of us, a future without those feels a lot different from one with them.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

That’s an interesting direct question, because it definitely depends on one’s worldview. E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_(virtue)#Overview https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_(virtue)#Overview covers a religious view, but I would also be interested if there were writings by secular folks in the current context of complete nihilism (which seems to have the ‘don’t ask that question’ approach to life).