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> Do you have a citation for your claim I know this is a popular trope in certain political circles, it's weasel words used to shirk accountability or scrutiny
by cptskippy 5y ago
> Do you have a citation for your claim
I know this is a popular trope in certain political circles, it's weasel words used to shirk accountability or scrutiny.
The article is literally about the Police's failure to comply and submit documentation of all uses-of-force. In the vacuum of any official documentation, the only thing we have to go by are citizen reports.
If you watch pretty much any video upload to social media about officers harassing citizens you'll see intimidation by the threat of violence and from actual violence. You'll see whenever someone is taken into custody they're handcuffed and that officers use that opportunity to inflict some physical pain on the individual.
- rednerrus 5y agoAsking for evidence is shirking accountability and scrutiny? Is this how logic and reasoning work?
- nescioquid 5y agoFrankly, I cringe every time I see someone come back smartly with the pithy reply "got any citations"? I know the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, but what I see here is really a dressed up "nuh uh!" If you disagree, just give your rebuttal providing any evidence or citations you please.
- rednerrus 5y agoI'm not even trying to rebut OPs argument. If they have evidence for their claim I would love to see it. I see the claim that there is an epidemic of police violence and extra judicial punishment in many different places on the internet. When I press for evidence, I typically get a response like "bro, don't you see the videos on social media". That seems rather anecdotal to me and I'm interested in real numbers. I am genuinely interested in how people are coming to the conclusions they are coming to.
- cptskippy 5y agoPart of the problem is the difficulty in gathering that evidence. Law enforcement routinely fails to report at all levels. The GAO slammed the DOJ for it's failure to do so for the last 5 years. Police supporters routinely say "show me the evidence" while going out of their way to prevent that evidence from being collected or reported on.
- rednerrus 5y agoThen what are you basing your opinion on? Do you understand that you're saying "there really isn't any data to base it on, just believe me."
- cptskippy 5y agoJust because someone hasn't tabulated everything into a nice spreadsheet or interactive graph on the NYT doesn't mean people can't form opinions. There's plenty of evidence that law enforcement are covering it up by the continued stone walling and repeated failures to report at all levels.
- nescioquid 5y ago
- cwkoss 5y agoDo you not see the circular logic in asking for official data that is evidence of police excessive force on a thread about police failing to share official data of excessive force? Your attitude is exactly what the anti-transparency police unions are trying promote: "No official evidence, so inaction is justified until that's available"
- rednerrus 5y agoI'm asking for any kind of evidence. It doesn't have to be official. There's nothing in what I'm saying that is calling for inaction. I'm asking OP for the evidence they're using to form their argument. Their argument is full of vague words alluding to an epidemic of police violence. If that is the case, show some evidence.
- syki 5y agoIt has been provided numerous time. A simple web search will give you more links to studies. Do your own research. You’ve spent a lot time not reading the links provided and not doing your own research. Clearly then you have no real interest in the topic.
- rednerrus 5y agoYou haven't posted a single piece of evidence for your initial assertions. You continue to post the same studies about increased domestic violence amongst police officers. That is not evidence for your initial statements.
- cwkoss 5y agoGoogling these names would be a good starting point: https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865261916/a-decade-of-watching-black-people-die https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865261916/a-decade-of-watchin... Again, there is no comprehensive official data bout this: hence the reason for this story. Case studies and incomplete data are all we have.
- 5y ago
- parineum 5y ago> If you watch pretty much any video upload to social media about officers harassing citizens you'll see intimidation by the threat of violence and from actual violence Everyone knows it happens. The claim that needs citation is that it is "widespread", happens "often" and "regularly". What that claim really needs is more specificity on what those words mean. > The article is literally about the Police's failure to comply and submit documentation of all uses-of-force. In the vacuum of any official documentation, the only thing we have to go by are citizen reports. Has someone compiled those citizen reports into a database? The proportion of what media dedicates time to (this includes social media) is not proportional to how often those things happen. In fact, it's often the opposite. Sensational, rare and objectionable things get disproportionate coverage. The topic database needs to exist. Instead of shutting it down for lack of compliance, it needs consequences or incentives attached to produce the desired behavior. As it is now, there's literally nothing to gain for the police to voluntarily report these incidents. It can only hurt them. It'd be like asking you to publish how often and how much you drink alcohol and offering no incentive or consequences. Why would you do that? It'd only invite scrutiny.
- cptskippy 5y ago> The proportion of what media dedicates time to (this includes social media) is not proportional to how often those things happen. In fact, it's often the opposite. Sensational, rare and objectionable things get disproportionate coverage. That's historically been the case when it comes to mainstream media and often used to dismiss claims of excessive force by police as exceptional. However with social media we can see that it's not an isolate or exceptional thing but rather a common every day occurrence. Though I've never been arrested or accosted by the police, I have been on the receiving end of their abuse of power many times in my life. I know first hand that the police and legal system abuse their power to penalize individuals who do not offer full compliance and blindly accept their asserted authority.
- rednerrus 5y agoThis is the definition of anecdotal evidence.