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Do you have a citation for your claim "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers. Police regularly punch, kick, or otherwise cause

Do you have a citation for your claim "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers. Police regularly punch, kick, or otherwise cause pain on people with no repercussions or reporting. People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse." I know this is a popular trope in certain political circles but I'd like to see some evidence. There are a lot of weasel words in that statement.

syki 5y ago
What is a “weasel” word? I suspect from the usage of that term that no amount of evidence I present will persuade you. Evidence of the problems I alluded too are easy to find. I get no income from the following link. https://www.amazon.com/Police-Wife-Epidemic-Domestic-Violence/dp/0994861761 https://www.amazon.com/Police-Wife-Epidemic-Domestic-Violenc...
- rednerrus 5y ago
  If the evidence is easy to find, please present it.
  - syki 5y ago
    I’ve done so twice. Here’s a third one. I’m not your researcher and have no desire to do the work for you beyond what I’ve done so far. Everyone has a right to avoid uncomfortable truths. https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/police-brutality-and-domestic-violence/ https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/police-brutality-and-dom...
    - rednerrus 5y ago
      Are you asserting that domestic violence is "non judicial punishments" or that it's violating the general populations right to peaceable assembly? Is there a domestic violence problem in the police force? From the evidence you're presenting, possibly. Is that evidence "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers. Police regularly punch, kick, or otherwise cause pain on people with no repercussions or reporting. People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse."? Absolutely not. This is why I'm asking you for your sources. The argument that you're putting forward is specious. The lack of particulars is a dead giveaway. When pressed, you're falling back on statistics that have nothing to do with your argument. I expect hackernews users to be more reasonable than this.
      - syki 5y ago
        I made a series of assertions. One of them being that police rarely police themselves. I used the domestic violence problem amongst police forces as evidence of this. Nowhere did I state anything along the lines that this fact has anything to do with police engaging in widespread violence against people they encounter. Do your own research. It’s easy to find studies about police violence they commit in the communities they patrol. But one has to wonder if police commit violence at home at a much higher rate than the general population is it surprising they commit violence against people they arrest? https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2861&context=etd https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2...
        rednerrus 5y ago
        You literally wrote "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers." and "People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse." Forgive me if I assumed the second statement was in regards to the police and that isn't what you meant. Do you have evidence for either of those statements? Increased domestic violence may very well lead to increased violence at work. You haven't presented any evidence to indicate that.
        syki 5y ago
        You previously wrote: Are you asserting that domestic violence is "non judicial punishments" or that it's violating the general populations right to peaceable assembly? Now you write: You literally wrote "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers." and "People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse." Forgive me if I assumed the second statement was in regards to the police and that isn't what you meant. Obviously these two statements I wrote have to do with police and violence they perpetrate. Equally obvious is that these statements are separate to my claims about police not policing themselves where I used domestic violence they inflict with impunity as evidence of that statement. You are welcome to believe that police commit widespread violence against their families but not against the people they arrest. It seems an unreasonable position to be in but you are free to have it.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  It's stuff you pad a fairly absolute statement with so that you have a technically true position to retreat to if people assert your fairly absolute statement out for being false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
  - syki 5y ago
    Thanks for the link and information. I don’t think my phrases are examples of this phenomenon.
    - rednerrus 5y ago
      What constitutes "widespread, regularly, and often"?
- LMYahooTFY 5y ago
  A book? Are you the author of the above linked tweet storm? If so I suspect from your "Lesson 1" that you're not very receptive to easy-to-find studies to the contrary of your position. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/982391187/study-body-worn-camera-research-shows-drop-in-police-use-of-force https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/982391187/study-body-worn-cam...
  - syki 5y ago
    Books often times contain useful information and can be used to present arguments and evidence from a wide variety of sources. I highly recommend the reading of books. I cited other sources. They are easy to find. You should have no trouble finding them yourself.
    - LMYahooTFY 5y ago
      Does the book address the study I've cited? I'd be happy to discuss.
cptskippy 5y ago
> Do you have a citation for your claim I know this is a popular trope in certain political circles, it's weasel words used to shirk accountability or scrutiny. The article is literally about the Police's failure to comply and submit documentation of all uses-of-force. In the vacuum of any official documentation, the only thing we have to go by are citizen reports. If you watch pretty much any video upload to social media about officers harassing citizens you'll see intimidation by the threat of violence and from actual violence. You'll see whenever someone is taken into custody they're handcuffed and that officers use that opportunity to inflict some physical pain on the individual.
- rednerrus 5y ago
  Asking for evidence is shirking accountability and scrutiny? Is this how logic and reasoning work?
  - nescioquid 5y ago
    Frankly, I cringe every time I see someone come back smartly with the pithy reply "got any citations"? I know the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, but what I see here is really a dressed up "nuh uh!" If you disagree, just give your rebuttal providing any evidence or citations you please.
    - rednerrus 5y ago
      I'm not even trying to rebut OPs argument. If they have evidence for their claim I would love to see it. I see the claim that there is an epidemic of police violence and extra judicial punishment in many different places on the internet. When I press for evidence, I typically get a response like "bro, don't you see the videos on social media". That seems rather anecdotal to me and I'm interested in real numbers. I am genuinely interested in how people are coming to the conclusions they are coming to.
      - cptskippy 5y ago
        Part of the problem is the difficulty in gathering that evidence. Law enforcement routinely fails to report at all levels. The GAO slammed the DOJ for it's failure to do so for the last 5 years. Police supporters routinely say "show me the evidence" while going out of their way to prevent that evidence from being collected or reported on.

syki 5y ago

What is a “weasel” word? I suspect from the usage of that term that no amount of evidence I present will persuade you. Evidence of the problems I alluded too are easy to find. I get no income from the following link. https://www.amazon.com/Police-Wife-Epidemic-Domestic-Violence/dp/0994861761 https://www.amazon.com/Police-Wife-Epidemic-Domestic-Violenc...

rednerrus 5y ago
If the evidence is easy to find, please present it.
- syki 5y ago
  I’ve done so twice. Here’s a third one. I’m not your researcher and have no desire to do the work for you beyond what I’ve done so far. Everyone has a right to avoid uncomfortable truths. https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/police-brutality-and-domestic-violence/ https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/police-brutality-and-dom...
  - rednerrus 5y ago
    Are you asserting that domestic violence is "non judicial punishments" or that it's violating the general populations right to peaceable assembly? Is there a domestic violence problem in the police force? From the evidence you're presenting, possibly. Is that evidence "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers. Police regularly punch, kick, or otherwise cause pain on people with no repercussions or reporting. People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse."? Absolutely not. This is why I'm asking you for your sources. The argument that you're putting forward is specious. The lack of particulars is a dead giveaway. When pressed, you're falling back on statistics that have nothing to do with your argument. I expect hackernews users to be more reasonable than this.
    - syki 5y ago
      I made a series of assertions. One of them being that police rarely police themselves. I used the domestic violence problem amongst police forces as evidence of this. Nowhere did I state anything along the lines that this fact has anything to do with police engaging in widespread violence against people they encounter. Do your own research. It’s easy to find studies about police violence they commit in the communities they patrol. But one has to wonder if police commit violence at home at a much higher rate than the general population is it surprising they commit violence against people they arrest? https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2861&context=etd https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2...
      - rednerrus 5y ago
        You literally wrote "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers." and "People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse." Forgive me if I assumed the second statement was in regards to the police and that isn't what you meant. Do you have evidence for either of those statements? Increased domestic violence may very well lead to increased violence at work. You haven't presented any evidence to indicate that.
        syki 5y ago
        You previously wrote: Are you asserting that domestic violence is "non judicial punishments" or that it's violating the general populations right to peaceable assembly? Now you write: You literally wrote "There is widespread use of non judicial punishments by police officers." and "People engaged in constitutionally protected activities are often subjected to intimidation and brutality with no recourse." Forgive me if I assumed the second statement was in regards to the police and that isn't what you meant. Obviously these two statements I wrote have to do with police and violence they perpetrate. Equally obvious is that these statements are separate to my claims about police not policing themselves where I used domestic violence they inflict with impunity as evidence of that statement. You are welcome to believe that police commit widespread violence against their families but not against the people they arrest. It seems an unreasonable position to be in but you are free to have it.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It's stuff you pad a fairly absolute statement with so that you have a technically true position to retreat to if people assert your fairly absolute statement out for being false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
- syki 5y ago
  Thanks for the link and information. I don’t think my phrases are examples of this phenomenon.
  - rednerrus 5y ago
    What constitutes "widespread, regularly, and often"?
LMYahooTFY 5y ago
A book? Are you the author of the above linked tweet storm? If so I suspect from your "Lesson 1" that you're not very receptive to easy-to-find studies to the contrary of your position. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/982391187/study-body-worn-camera-research-shows-drop-in-police-use-of-force https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/982391187/study-body-worn-cam...
- syki 5y ago
  Books often times contain useful information and can be used to present arguments and evidence from a wide variety of sources. I highly recommend the reading of books. I cited other sources. They are easy to find. You should have no trouble finding them yourself.
  - LMYahooTFY 5y ago
    Does the book address the study I've cited? I'd be happy to discuss.

cptskippy 5y ago

> Do you have a citation for your claim I know this is a popular trope in certain political circles, it's weasel words used to shirk accountability or scrutiny. The article is literally about the Police's failure to comply and submit documentation of all uses-of-force. In the vacuum of any official documentation, the only thing we have to go by are citizen reports. If you watch pretty much any video upload to social media about officers harassing citizens you'll see intimidation by the threat of violence and from actual violence. You'll see whenever someone is taken into custody they're handcuffed and that officers use that opportunity to inflict some physical pain on the individual.

rednerrus 5y ago
Asking for evidence is shirking accountability and scrutiny? Is this how logic and reasoning work?
- nescioquid 5y ago
  Frankly, I cringe every time I see someone come back smartly with the pithy reply "got any citations"? I know the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, but what I see here is really a dressed up "nuh uh!" If you disagree, just give your rebuttal providing any evidence or citations you please.
  - rednerrus 5y ago
    I'm not even trying to rebut OPs argument. If they have evidence for their claim I would love to see it. I see the claim that there is an epidemic of police violence and extra judicial punishment in many different places on the internet. When I press for evidence, I typically get a response like "bro, don't you see the videos on social media". That seems rather anecdotal to me and I'm interested in real numbers. I am genuinely interested in how people are coming to the conclusions they are coming to.
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      Part of the problem is the difficulty in gathering that evidence. Law enforcement routinely fails to report at all levels. The GAO slammed the DOJ for it's failure to do so for the last 5 years. Police supporters routinely say "show me the evidence" while going out of their way to prevent that evidence from being collected or reported on.