4 ms·

The intelligence agencies exist to advance some view of what our civilization should be. If you are not an anarchist or some other form of misguided extremist,

The intelligence agencies exist to advance some view of what our civilization should be. If you are not an anarchist or some other form of misguided extremist, then you probably agree with the goal or intentions of the state's IC apparratus even if you find a given mission or action of the IC to be strange when looked at and analyzed out of context. What I mean to say here is that there is a grand strategy at play, but you may, in your lives and in your careers, encounter a single out-of-context action of such agencies and you will be left feeling their actions were odd, but your feelings on the matter are a result of lacking context and that context is, unfortunately, only disclosed on a need-to-know basis. So, to those not involved in a goven operation, yes, the agencies will seem to be distorting reality all of the time... Use your brain and ask yourself the motive -- there is definitely a context in all scenarios that explains things pretty well and your elected leaders have signed off on that context after hearing the sales pitch of some analyst turned manager in the agency. TL;DR have faith in the actions of our nation's clandestine services. They are working to our benefit and their lives are on the line.

dman 5y ago
Are you in a position to confirm or deny that you work for an intelligence agency?
- champagnois 5y ago
  Consider me just a well-traveled, well-informed, well-meaning individual of reasonable intelligence who cares about my family and civilization. You should be worrying about the foreign agents and the incredibly sophisticated plans they are executing on our soil and on social media. If you care about your family or your civilization, you should be doing your part to help the big picture in what ever way you can. It matters. Help your community members live healthier, more meaningful lives. Help people stay away from social media and focused on making themselves and the world better with micro improvements, day by day.
  - atentaten 5y ago
    How are our clandestine agencies covertly or overtly helping us live healthier, meaningful, social-media-free lives?
    - champagnois 5y ago
      Who do you think made TOR? or SE Linux? or uncovers plots to import fentanyl to our shores and lace it into simple products to harm our citizens? Or leverages the dark web and social media platforms to monitor and disrupt foreign networks? Stay off of social media is my suggestion. Social media is basically a weapon.
      - 323454 5y ago
        I agree with the prescription to stay off weaponized social propaganda platforms and focus on your local community, but I don't see how you can ask people to blindly trust the CIA. Too many misdeeds to count. - Fabricating justification for war (Vietnam, Iraq) - Fabricating evidence of treason by a sitting President (Trump-Russia) - Overthrowing democratically elected governments (e.g. Iran) - Starting civil wars (e.g. Nicaragua) - Assassinating thousands of people, often with collateral killing of innocents - And drugs drugs drugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi... Ultimately, do we live in a better world thanks to the CIA? From where I sit, I'd need a lot of convincing to believe that.
      - 7189126743 5y ago
        they grow opium in afghanistan which becomes heroin which kills people in the us. they do this to fund operations they could never fund legally. literally everyone knows this
      - CyanBird 5y ago
        > to import fentanyl to our shores and lace it into simple products to harm our citizens? If you need yo bring this up, then you are just in effective at your job Go do an stuxnet type attack on the installations of the sackler family or shut up, these few companies have killed more of your own nationals than Russia, Iran, and China put together, you and your people clearly have got no scruples when it comes to breaking your own laws of operating in mainland US, yet instead of fixing the homeland problems, you go searching doe foreign dragons to slay, incompetent, simply incompetent
danieldevries 5y ago
What does 'faith' in clandestine services mean? The CIA is so powerful (above the law) and secretive that we just have to trust them? With a undisclosed black budget of $50B? more? Naive and extremely dangerous imo.
- champagnois 5y ago
  There is a higher power in the form of civillian elected government that manage the framework within which the IC members are allowed to operate. Information is partitioned away from the public so as to partition it away from the watchful eyes of foreign spies. There is no other way to do it. Intelligence services are a key element of our national strategic footing and our ability to keep our totalitarian adversaries contained. If you have a better solution where our IC could be both transparent AND effective, put it forward guy.
  - danieldevries 5y ago
    There has probably been little oversight or no oversight of the CIA since the Church committee in 70s. Fumbling the 911 attacks, selling war to the public in 2003, decades long direct foreign intervention in 20th century, etc. They are ineffective at best, and downright criminal at worst.
    - champagnois 5y ago
      The interventions in the time from 2003-2021 were interesting and seemed to have some effect on changing the cultures of the middle east. It is still too early to tell. American elected officials are who started the war, the intelligence agencies are just one of their many tools. The 911 attacks were a foreign attack on our soil. The intelligence agencies helped us track down and ultimately bring justice to the individual most responsible. Hoorah.
      - 7189126743 5y ago
        barf
mrjangles 5y ago
It is very clear, i think, to anyone that has been paying attention, that the purpose of the intelligence agencies meddling in home affairs has always been to destroy any populist movements and to push for elitist control over society (left and right means nothing to these people). This goes back to Hoover at the FBI (and maybe further). If you know anything about the last 200 years or so of history, you know that there is some merit to this as just about every evil and murderous regime to exist used populist paths to power. However, any reading of history also makes it clear that once in power these same murderous and corrupt regime used these exact same clandestine powers to crush populism and ensure their continued power. I find in very hard to take it on faith that intelligence agencies are trying to do the right thing rather than just protecting the corruption that has enabled the ill gotten power and wealth of themselves and the political class which they serve.

dman 5y ago

Are you in a position to confirm or deny that you work for an intelligence agency?

champagnois 5y ago
Consider me just a well-traveled, well-informed, well-meaning individual of reasonable intelligence who cares about my family and civilization. You should be worrying about the foreign agents and the incredibly sophisticated plans they are executing on our soil and on social media. If you care about your family or your civilization, you should be doing your part to help the big picture in what ever way you can. It matters. Help your community members live healthier, more meaningful lives. Help people stay away from social media and focused on making themselves and the world better with micro improvements, day by day.
- atentaten 5y ago
  How are our clandestine agencies covertly or overtly helping us live healthier, meaningful, social-media-free lives?
  - champagnois 5y ago
    Who do you think made TOR? or SE Linux? or uncovers plots to import fentanyl to our shores and lace it into simple products to harm our citizens? Or leverages the dark web and social media platforms to monitor and disrupt foreign networks? Stay off of social media is my suggestion. Social media is basically a weapon.
    - 323454 5y ago
      I agree with the prescription to stay off weaponized social propaganda platforms and focus on your local community, but I don't see how you can ask people to blindly trust the CIA. Too many misdeeds to count. - Fabricating justification for war (Vietnam, Iraq) - Fabricating evidence of treason by a sitting President (Trump-Russia) - Overthrowing democratically elected governments (e.g. Iran) - Starting civil wars (e.g. Nicaragua) - Assassinating thousands of people, often with collateral killing of innocents - And drugs drugs drugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi... Ultimately, do we live in a better world thanks to the CIA? From where I sit, I'd need a lot of convincing to believe that.
    - 7189126743 5y ago
      they grow opium in afghanistan which becomes heroin which kills people in the us. they do this to fund operations they could never fund legally. literally everyone knows this
    - CyanBird 5y ago
      > to import fentanyl to our shores and lace it into simple products to harm our citizens? If you need yo bring this up, then you are just in effective at your job Go do an stuxnet type attack on the installations of the sackler family or shut up, these few companies have killed more of your own nationals than Russia, Iran, and China put together, you and your people clearly have got no scruples when it comes to breaking your own laws of operating in mainland US, yet instead of fixing the homeland problems, you go searching doe foreign dragons to slay, incompetent, simply incompetent

danieldevries 5y ago

What does 'faith' in clandestine services mean? The CIA is so powerful (above the law) and secretive that we just have to trust them? With a undisclosed black budget of $50B? more? Naive and extremely dangerous imo.

champagnois 5y ago
There is a higher power in the form of civillian elected government that manage the framework within which the IC members are allowed to operate. Information is partitioned away from the public so as to partition it away from the watchful eyes of foreign spies. There is no other way to do it. Intelligence services are a key element of our national strategic footing and our ability to keep our totalitarian adversaries contained. If you have a better solution where our IC could be both transparent AND effective, put it forward guy.
- danieldevries 5y ago
  There has probably been little oversight or no oversight of the CIA since the Church committee in 70s. Fumbling the 911 attacks, selling war to the public in 2003, decades long direct foreign intervention in 20th century, etc. They are ineffective at best, and downright criminal at worst.
  - champagnois 5y ago
    The interventions in the time from 2003-2021 were interesting and seemed to have some effect on changing the cultures of the middle east. It is still too early to tell. American elected officials are who started the war, the intelligence agencies are just one of their many tools. The 911 attacks were a foreign attack on our soil. The intelligence agencies helped us track down and ultimately bring justice to the individual most responsible. Hoorah.
    - 7189126743 5y ago
      barf

mrjangles 5y ago

It is very clear, i think, to anyone that has been paying attention, that the purpose of the intelligence agencies meddling in home affairs has always been to destroy any populist movements and to push for elitist control over society (left and right means nothing to these people). This goes back to Hoover at the FBI (and maybe further). If you know anything about the last 200 years or so of history, you know that there is some merit to this as just about every evil and murderous regime to exist used populist paths to power. However, any reading of history also makes it clear that once in power these same murderous and corrupt regime used these exact same clandestine powers to crush populism and ensure their continued power. I find in very hard to take it on faith that intelligence agencies are trying to do the right thing rather than just protecting the corruption that has enabled the ill gotten power and wealth of themselves and the political class which they serve.