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> Look at how US companies pioneer the Covid vaccine for example. In descending order of doses made: Astra Zeneca (UK) Sinovac (China) Pfizer-BioNtech (Germ

> Look at how US companies pioneer the Covid vaccine for example. In descending order of doses made: Astra Zeneca (UK) Sinovac (China) Pfizer-BioNtech (Germany) Sinopharm (China) Moderna (US) Sputnik V (Russia) Johnson + Johnson (Belgium)

frockington1 5y ago
Astra Zeneca, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson + Johnson are traded on US Exchanges. It was a global effort with the vast majority of financial power coming from the US.
- freewilly1040 5y ago
  But global money goes into the US exchanges. In reality those companies are global firms, and it doesn’t really make sense to credit any one country with their accomplishments.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    Biontech research team based in Germany partnered with America for logistics and to get wider testing samples, the development work was done in Germany. The Oxford-AZ vaccine developed at Oxford university by a British-Swedish company AZ traded on the FTSE, not sure where America is involved there. The Janssen vaccine (J+J) was developed in Leiden, Netherlands, although the company is owned by an American company. Moderna was developed in the US. The actual work for most of those vaccines was done in Europe. With the exception of Morderna, America was there as the money men. Whoppee. Not really surprising, the best minds in America are figuring out how to get us to click on another youtube video to consume an advert, or to create a new financial derivative to gamble with peoples pensions more.
    - frockington1 5y ago
      Most pensions are mandated to be within a certain asset allocation. Most underperform due to stability being desired and are overweight fixed income. It is very rare for a pension fund to have any exposure to derivates
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - freewilly1040 5y ago
      I don’t know BioNTech, but J&J and AZ employ thousands of US scientists (AZ has 14k American employees as per their job site). Moderna is quite a large success to brush aside.
      - iso1631 5y ago
        I didn't brush it aside, it was one of many vaccines developed across the world, the refutation was of the claim "Look at how US companies pioneer the Covid vaccine for example" Which is bullshit, and reminds me of the opening to The Newsroom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU
  - frockington1 5y ago
    Agreed, it was a worldwide collaboration, as are most things now. Makes no sense to credit any country
tharne 5y ago
You can produce a boatload of a junk vaccine like Sinovac, that doesn't reflect much of anything, other than low standards, possibly. Objectively speaking, Moderna is the best vaccine out there and was one of the first. That doesn't even take into account the fact that it's the first vaccine of it's kind, mRNA, which will likely lead to tons of other good vaccines.
- iso1631 5y ago
  Biontec is mRNA and was approved for use before Moderna.
  - tharne 5y ago
    Splitting hairs here, Moderna and Pfizer were approved more or less at the same time and Moderna has shown itself to be the more effective vaccine. And we're talking about innovation in this thread, not which country is better at doing government paperwork (the Germans will beat the Americans on that one every time).
    - iso1631 5y ago
      "the first vaccine of it's kind" Apart from the other ones. Biontech was foudned 2 years before Moderna, and the first clinical trials started in 2013, there were many more over the next 7 years before covid came in as a shortcut. The claim that America is the only country that does this stuff is laughable.

frockington1 5y ago

Astra Zeneca, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson + Johnson are traded on US Exchanges. It was a global effort with the vast majority of financial power coming from the US.

freewilly1040 5y ago
But global money goes into the US exchanges. In reality those companies are global firms, and it doesn’t really make sense to credit any one country with their accomplishments.
- iso1631 5y ago
  Biontech research team based in Germany partnered with America for logistics and to get wider testing samples, the development work was done in Germany. The Oxford-AZ vaccine developed at Oxford university by a British-Swedish company AZ traded on the FTSE, not sure where America is involved there. The Janssen vaccine (J+J) was developed in Leiden, Netherlands, although the company is owned by an American company. Moderna was developed in the US. The actual work for most of those vaccines was done in Europe. With the exception of Morderna, America was there as the money men. Whoppee. Not really surprising, the best minds in America are figuring out how to get us to click on another youtube video to consume an advert, or to create a new financial derivative to gamble with peoples pensions more.
  - frockington1 5y ago
    Most pensions are mandated to be within a certain asset allocation. Most underperform due to stability being desired and are overweight fixed income. It is very rare for a pension fund to have any exposure to derivates
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - freewilly1040 5y ago
    I don’t know BioNTech, but J&J and AZ employ thousands of US scientists (AZ has 14k American employees as per their job site). Moderna is quite a large success to brush aside.
    - iso1631 5y ago
      I didn't brush it aside, it was one of many vaccines developed across the world, the refutation was of the claim "Look at how US companies pioneer the Covid vaccine for example" Which is bullshit, and reminds me of the opening to The Newsroom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU
- frockington1 5y ago
  Agreed, it was a worldwide collaboration, as are most things now. Makes no sense to credit any country

tharne 5y ago

You can produce a boatload of a junk vaccine like Sinovac, that doesn't reflect much of anything, other than low standards, possibly. Objectively speaking, Moderna is the best vaccine out there and was one of the first. That doesn't even take into account the fact that it's the first vaccine of it's kind, mRNA, which will likely lead to tons of other good vaccines.

iso1631 5y ago
Biontec is mRNA and was approved for use before Moderna.
- tharne 5y ago
  Splitting hairs here, Moderna and Pfizer were approved more or less at the same time and Moderna has shown itself to be the more effective vaccine. And we're talking about innovation in this thread, not which country is better at doing government paperwork (the Germans will beat the Americans on that one every time).
  - iso1631 5y ago
    "the first vaccine of it's kind" Apart from the other ones. Biontech was foudned 2 years before Moderna, and the first clinical trials started in 2013, there were many more over the next 7 years before covid came in as a shortcut. The claim that America is the only country that does this stuff is laughable.