4 ms·

Calling him a conman given what he has achieved with electric cars and rockets is absurd. That's coming from a place of envy or resentment. Musk over-promises,

by slibhb 5y ago

Calling him a conman given what he has achieved with electric cars and rockets is absurd. That's coming from a place of envy or resentment. Musk over-promises, and often, but what he delivers is impressive even if it doesn't meet his promises. Therefore he's no conman. The more interesting question is whether the over-promising is necessary if you want to achieve something substantial. Politicians certainly seem to think so.

hef19898 5y ago
Well, he can be both. With his conman stunts he is buying time for hos companies to finally achieve something. Sad part is, since something is done, he could just work with realistic timelines. He doesn't, and this results in Tesla et al having an unfair advantage over competitors who are measured against Elon's BS promises. Politicians are probably the worst group to measure against when it comes to honesty and decency.
- slibhb 5y ago
  I've seen every David Mamet movie and Musk is no conman by any fair definition. Politics works like this: 1. Politician "shares a vision" 2. People buy into that vision by voting politician into office 3. Politician never achieves vision but makes progress towards it or fails to The vision can be something like "everyone should be able to go to college," "a good job for every American," "no more homelessness," "healthcare for every American" and so on. Is this lying? In some sense, yes, but I would say we should judge politicans by how they change the world (for better or for worse) rather than whether they actually achieve their vision. Is it possible to make progress towards some goal without an unrealistic ideal providing inspiration?
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    This strategy is called "The old Razzle Dazzle": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3MIixEps4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3MIixEps4 Its well known to work. We all know it works, and there are a myriad of examples throughout US history (and maybe even in other countries). Just because it works doesn't mean its moral. ------- Leverage your popularity, start fights in the public, get the common people low-key interested (but not interested enough to actually look at the facts, just interested enough to follow the fun stuff) and give them a show. Suddenly you get a ton of supporters. Politicians, Lawyers, and yes, CEOs / Businessmen commonly do this. Call it whatever you want, its not something I think we should b glorifying as a society.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      Whether this process is justifiable or moral is an interesting question. A second question is whether there's any alternative (I doubt it). One thing's for sure: the border between "vision" and "lie" is hard to figure out.
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        The line is crossed when you start demeaning honest people to get your idea out there. A line that Elon has crossed many years ago. Pedo-Scuba Diver, COVID19 denial to keep the Fremont factory open, $39,990 Cybertruck, SEC flaunting / breaking of rules, etc. etc.
__s 5y ago
Over selling being necessary is a drag, & it exists in internal politics too. It's priced in, so giving someone a realistic schedule/budget causes two problems: they lower your expected range by thinking your realistic numbers are optimistic, & it breaks the lull that some project is going to save having to put in hard work still
misiti3780 5y ago
A large portion of the users here are jealous of what he has achieved, and it's very obvious by the pile-on negativity any time an article with Musk in the text comes up. You would have to be delusion to call him a con-man in 2021, but yet it is still happening. Oh well, as Taylor Swift famously wrote "haters gonna hate"
- wara23arish 5y ago
  I think I have met someone jealous like you mentioned . Within 2 hours of meeting them, Somehow the new austin gigafactory was brought up and they started to attack Musk to paint him as a failure. Just citing random tidbits and facts. I didn’t really argue since I am not that invested nor do i think Musks needs me to defend his reputation lol. Im not really on twitter or social media anymore except for occasional HN, so this took me by surprise but I guess this is more common than I thought.
voakbasda 5y ago
Calling him a conman is entirely accurate. He just happens to be a successful conman, so he still has his supporters.

by slibhb 5y ago

hef19898 5y ago

Well, he can be both. With his conman stunts he is buying time for hos companies to finally achieve something. Sad part is, since something is done, he could just work with realistic timelines. He doesn't, and this results in Tesla et al having an unfair advantage over competitors who are measured against Elon's BS promises. Politicians are probably the worst group to measure against when it comes to honesty and decency.

slibhb 5y ago
I've seen every David Mamet movie and Musk is no conman by any fair definition. Politics works like this: 1. Politician "shares a vision" 2. People buy into that vision by voting politician into office 3. Politician never achieves vision but makes progress towards it or fails to The vision can be something like "everyone should be able to go to college," "a good job for every American," "no more homelessness," "healthcare for every American" and so on. Is this lying? In some sense, yes, but I would say we should judge politicans by how they change the world (for better or for worse) rather than whether they actually achieve their vision. Is it possible to make progress towards some goal without an unrealistic ideal providing inspiration?
- dragontamer 5y ago
  This strategy is called "The old Razzle Dazzle": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3MIixEps4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3MIixEps4 Its well known to work. We all know it works, and there are a myriad of examples throughout US history (and maybe even in other countries). Just because it works doesn't mean its moral. ------- Leverage your popularity, start fights in the public, get the common people low-key interested (but not interested enough to actually look at the facts, just interested enough to follow the fun stuff) and give them a show. Suddenly you get a ton of supporters. Politicians, Lawyers, and yes, CEOs / Businessmen commonly do this. Call it whatever you want, its not something I think we should b glorifying as a society.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    Whether this process is justifiable or moral is an interesting question. A second question is whether there's any alternative (I doubt it). One thing's for sure: the border between "vision" and "lie" is hard to figure out.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      The line is crossed when you start demeaning honest people to get your idea out there. A line that Elon has crossed many years ago. Pedo-Scuba Diver, COVID19 denial to keep the Fremont factory open, $39,990 Cybertruck, SEC flaunting / breaking of rules, etc. etc.

__s 5y ago

Over selling being necessary is a drag, & it exists in internal politics too. It's priced in, so giving someone a realistic schedule/budget causes two problems: they lower your expected range by thinking your realistic numbers are optimistic, & it breaks the lull that some project is going to save having to put in hard work still

misiti3780 5y ago

A large portion of the users here are jealous of what he has achieved, and it's very obvious by the pile-on negativity any time an article with Musk in the text comes up. You would have to be delusion to call him a con-man in 2021, but yet it is still happening. Oh well, as Taylor Swift famously wrote "haters gonna hate"

wara23arish 5y ago
I think I have met someone jealous like you mentioned . Within 2 hours of meeting them, Somehow the new austin gigafactory was brought up and they started to attack Musk to paint him as a failure. Just citing random tidbits and facts. I didn’t really argue since I am not that invested nor do i think Musks needs me to defend his reputation lol. Im not really on twitter or social media anymore except for occasional HN, so this took me by surprise but I guess this is more common than I thought.

voakbasda 5y ago

Calling him a conman is entirely accurate. He just happens to be a successful conman, so he still has his supporters.