4 ms·

New Zealand to ban young people from ever being able to buy cigarettes

25 points by koolba 5y ago

easytiger 5y ago
3 weeks to flatten the curve certainly turned into totalitarianism pretty quickly
joemazerino 5y ago
Yeah that will stop them..
voakbasda 5y ago
This sounds like a good time to invest in the forthcoming black market for cigarettes. Because that's what prohibition will get you, New Zealand.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  Hard to see how a black market for cigarettes will ever be as large as the current legal market, or as large as the prohibition-era market for booze. In most Western societies cigarettes are looked down upon in social situations. How many people, beyond those who are hardcore addicted, would go to the trouble of breaking the law for a smoke?
  - easytiger 5y ago
    In the UK cigarettes are so expensive there is a widely accessible black market. My parents buy illegal cigarettes for example because they are cheaper than buying in a shop. It already exists
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    There are black markets for many mundane things that you would never suspect would be trafficked. Make something illegal (or effectively so, via taxation) and the demand will be met by someone.
tcj_phx 5y ago
Tobacco does have medicinal properties. For example, many psychiatric patients smoke a lot [0]. I propose they use nicotine to counter-act some of the terrible drugs they're forced to take. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoking-gun/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoki... Nicotene is a partial substitute for Niacin (Vitamin B-3). Niacinamide sometimes helps people reduce their tobacco intake. The first generation anti-depressants were the Mono Amine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs). Tobacco has MAOI-like effects too. I think tobacco is also an anti-estrogen... Aromatase inhibitor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904480/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904480/ Compulsions have to be considered in context: people get benefits from tobacco that they do actually need. My friend (a misdiagnosed 'psych patient') took up smoking when she was 12, probably because she was depressed. Edit: submission of a CS montior link about this same news item: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29500610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29500610
- ncmncm 5y ago
  I have known several people who smoked tobacco to help suppress schizophrenic symptoms. The drugs prescribed for that are very unsatisfactory. Arguably, nicotine patches should be available over the counter. Nobody would use them unless they need them.
- drekk 5y ago
  Heroin has medicinal properties too. That doesn't mean any 16 year old should be allowed to purchase it over the counter for whatever ailment they think it may treat. Nicotine is one of the most reinforcing substances we know of, and can be as difficult to kick as a cocaine or heroin habit. It easily removes a decade from your lifespan and reduces the quality of the remaining years. I am not a psychiatrist, but my degree is in neuroscience. It's not 100% clear why some clinical populations are overrepresented amongst nicotine users. You offer an explanation but there are many more and some are at odds with one another. If it's because of medicinal benefits, isolating those is preferable to getting tar in your lungs. If it's because people with conditions like schizophrenia are less supported, predisposing them to substance abuse, having a legal and extremely addictive substance at any store or gas station would make it worse. Makes no sense to me given how most governments treat cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, etc. which are much safer and less habit forming (and have much better medicinal applications)
tromp 5y ago
Also discussed 19 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492285 14 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29493740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29493740 10 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495235 3 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29498552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29498552
ncmncm 5y ago
NZ had to thread the needle of not making themselves liable to "free trade" courts, which the US routinely uses to force smaller countries to eliminate public health measures that reduce sales of US products. They have to obey, at risk of losing rights to export their products to the US.

25 points by koolba 5y ago

easytiger 5y ago

3 weeks to flatten the curve certainly turned into totalitarianism pretty quickly

joemazerino 5y ago

Yeah that will stop them..

voakbasda 5y ago

This sounds like a good time to invest in the forthcoming black market for cigarettes. Because that's what prohibition will get you, New Zealand.

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
Hard to see how a black market for cigarettes will ever be as large as the current legal market, or as large as the prohibition-era market for booze. In most Western societies cigarettes are looked down upon in social situations. How many people, beyond those who are hardcore addicted, would go to the trouble of breaking the law for a smoke?
- easytiger 5y ago
  In the UK cigarettes are so expensive there is a widely accessible black market. My parents buy illegal cigarettes for example because they are cheaper than buying in a shop. It already exists
- voakbasda 5y ago
  There are black markets for many mundane things that you would never suspect would be trafficked. Make something illegal (or effectively so, via taxation) and the demand will be met by someone.

tcj_phx 5y ago

Tobacco does have medicinal properties. For example, many psychiatric patients smoke a lot [0]. I propose they use nicotine to counter-act some of the terrible drugs they're forced to take. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoking-gun/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoki... Nicotene is a partial substitute for Niacin (Vitamin B-3). Niacinamide sometimes helps people reduce their tobacco intake. The first generation anti-depressants were the Mono Amine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs). Tobacco has MAOI-like effects too. I think tobacco is also an anti-estrogen... Aromatase inhibitor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904480/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904480/ Compulsions have to be considered in context: people get benefits from tobacco that they do actually need. My friend (a misdiagnosed 'psych patient') took up smoking when she was 12, probably because she was depressed. Edit: submission of a CS montior link about this same news item: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29500610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29500610

ncmncm 5y ago
I have known several people who smoked tobacco to help suppress schizophrenic symptoms. The drugs prescribed for that are very unsatisfactory. Arguably, nicotine patches should be available over the counter. Nobody would use them unless they need them.
drekk 5y ago
Heroin has medicinal properties too. That doesn't mean any 16 year old should be allowed to purchase it over the counter for whatever ailment they think it may treat. Nicotine is one of the most reinforcing substances we know of, and can be as difficult to kick as a cocaine or heroin habit. It easily removes a decade from your lifespan and reduces the quality of the remaining years. I am not a psychiatrist, but my degree is in neuroscience. It's not 100% clear why some clinical populations are overrepresented amongst nicotine users. You offer an explanation but there are many more and some are at odds with one another. If it's because of medicinal benefits, isolating those is preferable to getting tar in your lungs. If it's because people with conditions like schizophrenia are less supported, predisposing them to substance abuse, having a legal and extremely addictive substance at any store or gas station would make it worse. Makes no sense to me given how most governments treat cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, etc. which are much safer and less habit forming (and have much better medicinal applications)

tromp 5y ago

Also discussed 19 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492285 14 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29493740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29493740 10 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495235 3 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29498552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29498552

ncmncm 5y ago

NZ had to thread the needle of not making themselves liable to "free trade" courts, which the US routinely uses to force smaller countries to eliminate public health measures that reduce sales of US products. They have to obey, at risk of losing rights to export their products to the US.