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What does "tribal" mean in this context? Would any Ghanaian at that time have been considered "tribal"? If not, what made this particular woman "tribal"?

by prmph 5y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
I would say that someone who is _not_ tribal would be more likely to live in a larger town or city, have more formal education, speaks a "foreign" language such as English, French or Arabic, may have parents who come from different villages, and even different different ethnic backgrounds (Wikipedia lists about 9 local languages and similar number of ethnic groups in Ghana) (1). Someone who _is_ tribal is well, not detribalised (2). And is able to say which specific tribe (geographic area, language, customs etc) they were raised in. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detribalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detribalization
- prmph 5y ago
  So an American who does not speak a foreign language, who lives in a small town, who has never been outside the county he was born in, and whose parents are from the same county, can be referred to as “tribal”?
  - dghughes 5y ago
    You can probably use the term clan as in Scottish clan in place of tribe.
    - dismantlethesun 5y ago
      I use this comparison too but I’m curious are the Scott clans more like family groups? Do you intermarry within the same clan?
      - dghughes 5y ago
        From what I understand a clan would be even more tight-knit not intermarry but marry into the clan. A woman from clan Campbell marries a man in clan MacDonald she would now be a part of MacDonald. A tribe or band could bring in someone not necessarily by marriage alone. It's a common thing all over the world whatever name it is given; clan, tribe, band, caste. There are probably some differences between all those terms but an anthropologist would have to explain it not me.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > and whose parents are from the same county With the vast majority of Americans, a few generations back the ancestors are are immigrants, and they can usually tell you from where.
- dismantlethesun 5y ago
  > I would say that someone who is _not_ tribal would be more likely to live in a larger town or city, have more formal education Everyone in Ghana with a formal education speaks at least 1 tribal languages. It’s a requirement for graduation that you learn a “foreign” language of a tribe that is not your own. So typically, you will speak 2 local languages. Learning a local language is also a requirement for citizenship. > And is able to say which specific tribe (geographic area, language, customs etc) they were raised in. All citizens are required to list an ancestral village on official applications such as tax information, passports, nation IDs and bank accounts. There’s no good comparison, but think it like the EU. You can live in London for 30 years, but you’re still French.
  - tasogare 5y ago
    Your comments on the topic are really interesting. You could open a blog on it. Most Europeans have zero ideas about how things really are working in Africa, besides a few stereotypes.
    - dismantlethesun 5y ago
      Ha, I couldn't. Outside of my little segment of West Africa, I have no idea how anything works either.
dghughes 5y ago
Not OP and not Ghana but I saw this and it seems to partly answer your question. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/7/8/being-ijaw-in-the-uk-an-oddity-among-fellow-nigerian-youth https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/7/8/being-ijaw-in-th...
- prmph 5y ago
  The point I'm making is that it's a racist term, irrespective of whether someone chooses to use it to describe themselves. People are downvoting when their world-view is questioned, without taking a moment to reflect on their assumptions. I'm Ghanaian myself, and at a loss as to what qualifies one as "tribal", when the same term would not be applied to people in other parts of the world in exactly the same circumstances. It's the same thing with African art being classified as "tribal" art, their languages considered "tribal" languages, when in actual fact it's just plain old art and language.
  - dismantlethesun 5y ago
    Um. It is not a racist term. The major ethnic groups in Ghana are specifically tribes in the same way that the Irish have clans. The tribes have independent languages, customs, religions, and most importantly governmental structures. The heads of each tribe are represented in the federal government via the House of Chiefs[1]. A persons tribe is a definitive thing. Your chosen tribe is listed as part of your national ID, and used to open a bank account. Even if you were born outside of its bounds, the most common question is “what is your ancestral village?” (To note, some villages are cities now. And some cities like the capital have multiple villages in them.) Similar to how the US has problems with “race”, Ghana has tribes and the federal government constantly has campaigns against “tribalism”. This isn’t without cause. Ghana was formed after the Fanti confederation, joined with the British to subdue the Ashanti putting to end a long running debate as to who was the “true” leaders of the Alan group (spoiler: no one). The Ewe who had been chased off to the west, united to provide material aide as well so they can be considered part of the war. > I'm Ghanaian myself… Me too. :) > when the same term would not be applied to people in other parts of the world in exactly the same circumstances. Can’t speak about any other part of the world but: the US has tribes which are functionally equivalent to Ghanaian tribes. The UK had tribes too, but the supergroup became dominant and created a “nation”. Wales was 3 tribes, but it was unified under a single throne for so long that the cultural differences waned since they had an external enemy: the British. The Ashanti tried to do the same thing but it failed which is why the Akan supergroup still has dozens of tribes. Ashanti is an absolute monarchy, but all the others have their own systems of succession. The Ewes are unified under a High Chief precisely because they kept losing wars, pressuring them to join for defense. Our tribes aren’t ancient relics. There is a pretty vibrant Akan art scene, and in 2020 a presidential candidate proposed making Twi the national language. When it comes to art there’s a difference between the art that has its cultural roots at the national level, and art that reflecting a local tribes ethos (e.g. Ewe art has very few examples of warrior motifs but Ashanti culture has venerated specific swords). This turned out to be longer than I wanted it to be but if you are ever in Accra, the library near the W.E.B. Dubois centre has great resources for this. The new presidential library in Cape Coast is empty but that’s a rant for another time. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_House_of_Chiefs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_House_of_Chiefs
kingcharles 5y ago
You make an excellent point. Sometimes we use words out of habit. That is how she always refers to herself. Now that you bring it up and I have to consciously think about it, I wonder what the term really means in this context? Really, that she came from an un-Westernized part of the country and lived without the modern technology found in the cities at the time? That cannot be the whole story because I've heard her mention railways from her childhood.
- dismantlethesun 5y ago
  You can see my other comment in the thread for more, but all people in Ghana are “tribal”. Your tribal lineage is recorded in the national ID, needed to open a bank account, and the tribes are represented in the Federal government (I.e. like how the UK has a House of Lords). All states are divided on tribal lines. Tribes have cities. Kumasi is the 3rd largest city in Ghana and the capital of the Ashanti. Heck, even today there’s a movement for the Ewe to break off into their own nation[1]. (Funny what finding oil in your soil will do to you.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Togoland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Togoland
  - prmph 5y ago
    This is muddying up the issue under discussion. The question is not about whether Ghanaians think of themselves as belonging to a tribe. The point is that the distinction between terms such as nation, clan, and tribe is arbitrary, in a sense. We condemn “tribalism” and yet extol nationalism, although they spring from the same attitudes and worldviews.
    - dismantlethesun 5y ago
      Well if you say they're arbitrary, I can't disagree with you. The distinction between all words is obituary, especially when it comes to sociological concepts. But if in truth there's no reason to condemn “tribalism” and yet extol nationalism, then I think we ought to be proud of the original and most commonly used term "Tribe" and look down upon its usage.

What does "tribal" mean in this context? Would any Ghanaian at that time have been considered "tribal"? If not, what made this particular woman "tribal"?

by prmph 5y ago

What does "tribal" mean in this context? Would any Ghanaian at that time have been considered "tribal"? If not, what made this particular woman "tribal"?

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

I would say that someone who is _not_ tribal would be more likely to live in a larger town or city, have more formal education, speaks a "foreign" language such as English, French or Arabic, may have parents who come from different villages, and even different different ethnic backgrounds (Wikipedia lists about 9 local languages and similar number of ethnic groups in Ghana) (1). Someone who _is_ tribal is well, not detribalised (2). And is able to say which specific tribe (geographic area, language, customs etc) they were raised in. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detribalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detribalization

prmph 5y ago
So an American who does not speak a foreign language, who lives in a small town, who has never been outside the county he was born in, and whose parents are from the same county, can be referred to as “tribal”?
- dghughes 5y ago
  You can probably use the term clan as in Scottish clan in place of tribe.
  - dismantlethesun 5y ago
    I use this comparison too but I’m curious are the Scott clans more like family groups? Do you intermarry within the same clan?
    - dghughes 5y ago
      From what I understand a clan would be even more tight-knit not intermarry but marry into the clan. A woman from clan Campbell marries a man in clan MacDonald she would now be a part of MacDonald. A tribe or band could bring in someone not necessarily by marriage alone. It's a common thing all over the world whatever name it is given; clan, tribe, band, caste. There are probably some differences between all those terms but an anthropologist would have to explain it not me.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > and whose parents are from the same county With the vast majority of Americans, a few generations back the ancestors are are immigrants, and they can usually tell you from where.
dismantlethesun 5y ago
> I would say that someone who is _not_ tribal would be more likely to live in a larger town or city, have more formal education Everyone in Ghana with a formal education speaks at least 1 tribal languages. It’s a requirement for graduation that you learn a “foreign” language of a tribe that is not your own. So typically, you will speak 2 local languages. Learning a local language is also a requirement for citizenship. > And is able to say which specific tribe (geographic area, language, customs etc) they were raised in. All citizens are required to list an ancestral village on official applications such as tax information, passports, nation IDs and bank accounts. There’s no good comparison, but think it like the EU. You can live in London for 30 years, but you’re still French.
- tasogare 5y ago
  Your comments on the topic are really interesting. You could open a blog on it. Most Europeans have zero ideas about how things really are working in Africa, besides a few stereotypes.
  - dismantlethesun 5y ago
    Ha, I couldn't. Outside of my little segment of West Africa, I have no idea how anything works either.

dghughes 5y ago

Not OP and not Ghana but I saw this and it seems to partly answer your question. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/7/8/being-ijaw-in-the-uk-an-oddity-among-fellow-nigerian-youth https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/7/8/being-ijaw-in-th...

prmph 5y ago
The point I'm making is that it's a racist term, irrespective of whether someone chooses to use it to describe themselves. People are downvoting when their world-view is questioned, without taking a moment to reflect on their assumptions. I'm Ghanaian myself, and at a loss as to what qualifies one as "tribal", when the same term would not be applied to people in other parts of the world in exactly the same circumstances. It's the same thing with African art being classified as "tribal" art, their languages considered "tribal" languages, when in actual fact it's just plain old art and language.
- dismantlethesun 5y ago
  Um. It is not a racist term. The major ethnic groups in Ghana are specifically tribes in the same way that the Irish have clans. The tribes have independent languages, customs, religions, and most importantly governmental structures. The heads of each tribe are represented in the federal government via the House of Chiefs[1]. A persons tribe is a definitive thing. Your chosen tribe is listed as part of your national ID, and used to open a bank account. Even if you were born outside of its bounds, the most common question is “what is your ancestral village?” (To note, some villages are cities now. And some cities like the capital have multiple villages in them.) Similar to how the US has problems with “race”, Ghana has tribes and the federal government constantly has campaigns against “tribalism”. This isn’t without cause. Ghana was formed after the Fanti confederation, joined with the British to subdue the Ashanti putting to end a long running debate as to who was the “true” leaders of the Alan group (spoiler: no one). The Ewe who had been chased off to the west, united to provide material aide as well so they can be considered part of the war. > I'm Ghanaian myself… Me too. :) > when the same term would not be applied to people in other parts of the world in exactly the same circumstances. Can’t speak about any other part of the world but: the US has tribes which are functionally equivalent to Ghanaian tribes. The UK had tribes too, but the supergroup became dominant and created a “nation”. Wales was 3 tribes, but it was unified under a single throne for so long that the cultural differences waned since they had an external enemy: the British. The Ashanti tried to do the same thing but it failed which is why the Akan supergroup still has dozens of tribes. Ashanti is an absolute monarchy, but all the others have their own systems of succession. The Ewes are unified under a High Chief precisely because they kept losing wars, pressuring them to join for defense. Our tribes aren’t ancient relics. There is a pretty vibrant Akan art scene, and in 2020 a presidential candidate proposed making Twi the national language. When it comes to art there’s a difference between the art that has its cultural roots at the national level, and art that reflecting a local tribes ethos (e.g. Ewe art has very few examples of warrior motifs but Ashanti culture has venerated specific swords). This turned out to be longer than I wanted it to be but if you are ever in Accra, the library near the W.E.B. Dubois centre has great resources for this. The new presidential library in Cape Coast is empty but that’s a rant for another time. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_House_of_Chiefs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_House_of_Chiefs

kingcharles 5y ago

You make an excellent point. Sometimes we use words out of habit. That is how she always refers to herself. Now that you bring it up and I have to consciously think about it, I wonder what the term really means in this context? Really, that she came from an un-Westernized part of the country and lived without the modern technology found in the cities at the time? That cannot be the whole story because I've heard her mention railways from her childhood.

dismantlethesun 5y ago
You can see my other comment in the thread for more, but all people in Ghana are “tribal”. Your tribal lineage is recorded in the national ID, needed to open a bank account, and the tribes are represented in the Federal government (I.e. like how the UK has a House of Lords). All states are divided on tribal lines. Tribes have cities. Kumasi is the 3rd largest city in Ghana and the capital of the Ashanti. Heck, even today there’s a movement for the Ewe to break off into their own nation[1]. (Funny what finding oil in your soil will do to you.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Togoland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Togoland
- prmph 5y ago
  This is muddying up the issue under discussion. The question is not about whether Ghanaians think of themselves as belonging to a tribe. The point is that the distinction between terms such as nation, clan, and tribe is arbitrary, in a sense. We condemn “tribalism” and yet extol nationalism, although they spring from the same attitudes and worldviews.
  - dismantlethesun 5y ago
    Well if you say they're arbitrary, I can't disagree with you. The distinction between all words is obituary, especially when it comes to sociological concepts. But if in truth there's no reason to condemn “tribalism” and yet extol nationalism, then I think we ought to be proud of the original and most commonly used term "Tribe" and look down upon its usage.