6 ms·

Good? What's the alternative? Have a crappy, paid-for, add filled, bloated app promote itself as "Cauliflower Cooker Lite - the #1 free cauliflower app. 100% a

by edent 5y ago

Good? What's the alternative? Have a crappy, paid-for, add filled, bloated app promote itself as "Cauliflower Cooker Lite - the #1 free cauliflower app. 100% ad-free". Metadata like file size, whether there are in-app ads or purchases, etc, should be part of the store's listing - not the title.

npteljes 5y ago
The alternative I'd like is making common user expectations into formalized properties of the software, making them visible and searchable. Like how it lists "Offers in-app purchases" currently, it could also list "Ad-free", "Free", etc.
- chalst 5y ago
  F-Droid does this already with its listing of 'anti-features' for each app.
  - medstrom 5y ago
    Yes, what I've sometimes done is search F-Droid first, then find that same app on the iOS app store.
  - npteljes 5y ago
    Yes, and I love it! I'm using LineageOS for the third year now.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> should be part of the store's listing - not the title. How long has Google store been operating (under various names)? Over a decade I think. Do they know people would love to choose between apps with and without ads? Of course. Why they decided not to implement it in the listing? Because they live from ads. There is exactly zero chance they will do it as you propose.
- Kylekramer 5y ago
  They've shown whether an app has ads for over five years: https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/28/the-play-store-starts-showing-contains-ads-designation-for-apps-and-games/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/28/the-play-store-star...
  - addingnumbers 5y ago
    They won't have my appreciation or respect until they let me permanently filter out paid or adware apps and keep them filtered out until I choose to see them again. It would be so easy to implement, it seems scornful not to. When I want a needle, they hand me a haystack and say "we etched 'this is a needle' into the needles for you so you'll know when you find one. Good luck." I admit I haven't used android for three or four years so maybe they have this capability now, would love to be corrected if so.
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      > I admit I haven't used android for three or four years so maybe they have this capability now, would love to be corrected if so. Nothing has changed.
j1elo 5y ago
> Metadata like file size, whether there are in-app ads or purchases, etc, should be part of the store's listing - not the title. Well yeah, the theory is easy. I'd say "Yes" to what you say, IFF the metadata is usable as a search filter. Otherwise, it's of no use, thus not a better solution in practice.
whimsicalism 5y ago
> Metadata like file size, whether there are in-app ads or purchases, etc, should be part of the store's listing - not the title. ???? Did I miss the part where Google announced they were adding searchable metadata at the same time they eliminated adding this info to the title? If not, seems like a clearly anti-consumer move.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  Listings show whether they have ads, in-app purchases etc. on a separate screen
  - megatoaster 5y ago
    Searching 'no ads' seemingly won't query that tag, seemingly.
    - drusepth 5y ago
      Seems pretty trivial to eventually add, compared to trying to enforce correctness on results from user-provided tags in titles. I'm a little surprised you can't search for "no ads" apps outside of e.g. Pass listings, but I'm really glad they're not defaulting to just a title text search and cluttered listings of Farming Simulator [NO ADS] [NO IAPS] [NO REFERRALS] [NO TIMEWAITS] [NO DLC].
      - throwaway2048 5y ago
        its trivial to add, yet hasn't been added in almost 15 years, it is very much a title text search and nothing about this move indicates otherwise. there is no economic interest from google to make ad free apps actually findable, and no chance somebody making a better play store is going to usurp their position.
        handrous 5y ago
        Even Apple doesn't have a "show only actually-free" toggle on their store for free apps with no IAP and no ads. Which sucks.
skratlo 5y ago
Absolutely NOT! It's waaay better to have huge multinational corporation dictate what's right and what's wrong and what's good and what's bad! And they do it for you my friend! For FREE!
- krolden 5y ago
  Well its their platform
  - lillecarl 5y ago
    It doesn't work like that when you're one of two players in the segment, that's what antitrust is about. "It's their platform" would work well if there were any significant alternatives, which there aren't.
    - drusepth 5y ago
      There are many popular app stores on Android and you're free to use any of them (or none of them, if you just download apps directly from websites) without rooting your phone, jailbreaking, etc. A recent list of someone's favorites: https://42matters.com/blog/?p=the-best-of-2020-a-list-of-app-stores-for-android-apps https://42matters.com/blog/?p=the-best-of-2020-a-list-of-app...
      - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        Apple and Google together have 95% market share. From the perspective of an Android user, a lot of the alternatives are interesting. Especially F-Droid. From the perspective of the app developer, it doesn't work. You use Apple and Google or you lose 95% of the market. And the same constraint keeps it that way. You lose most of the Android market if you're not in Google Play, so nearly everything that isn't explicitly banned can be found in Google Play, so most users have no occasion to install any other app store and the friction to developers using another one to the exclusion of Google Play remains high.
    - entropicdrifter 5y ago
tut-urut-utut 5y ago
> What's the alternative? Have a crappy, paid-for, add filled, bloated app promote itself as "Cauliflower Cooker Lite - the #1 free cauliflower app. 100% ad-free". That's what we have on Amazon now. Looks like every single product contain all the metadata in product title. SEO spam from top to the bottom of the search results page. I hate it, but given how crappy filtering on both Amazon and Play store is, I still prefer to see more information about a product in the search result list than less, even if that means bloated titles. On the other hand, if both Amazon and Play store had usable filtering, all these bloated names would not be needed.
rpdillon 5y ago
What information folks are allowed to supply is distinct from ensuring its accuracy, I think. Misleading app names are a problem regardless, but given that many apps have ads and charge for the ad-free experience, it seems odd the developer isn't allowed to highlight that in the title. But Google can do as they wish: another reason alternative app stores have an important role to play.
discreditable 5y ago
Google themselves have mildly loaded app titles too. Google Chrome: Fast & Secure Google Go: A lighter, faster way to search Gboard - the Google Keyboard
xnx 5y ago
You could do a Google search something like this: [inurl:https://play.google.com/store/apps/ https://play.google.com/store/apps/ -"Contains Ads"]

by edent 5y ago

npteljes 5y ago

The alternative I'd like is making common user expectations into formalized properties of the software, making them visible and searchable. Like how it lists "Offers in-app purchases" currently, it could also list "Ad-free", "Free", etc.

chalst 5y ago
F-Droid does this already with its listing of 'anti-features' for each app.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Yes, what I've sometimes done is search F-Droid first, then find that same app on the iOS app store.
- npteljes 5y ago
  Yes, and I love it! I'm using LineageOS for the third year now.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

> should be part of the store's listing - not the title. How long has Google store been operating (under various names)? Over a decade I think. Do they know people would love to choose between apps with and without ads? Of course. Why they decided not to implement it in the listing? Because they live from ads. There is exactly zero chance they will do it as you propose.

Kylekramer 5y ago
They've shown whether an app has ads for over five years: https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/28/the-play-store-starts-showing-contains-ads-designation-for-apps-and-games/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/28/the-play-store-star...
- addingnumbers 5y ago
  They won't have my appreciation or respect until they let me permanently filter out paid or adware apps and keep them filtered out until I choose to see them again. It would be so easy to implement, it seems scornful not to. When I want a needle, they hand me a haystack and say "we etched 'this is a needle' into the needles for you so you'll know when you find one. Good luck." I admit I haven't used android for three or four years so maybe they have this capability now, would love to be corrected if so.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    > I admit I haven't used android for three or four years so maybe they have this capability now, would love to be corrected if so. Nothing has changed.

j1elo 5y ago

> Metadata like file size, whether there are in-app ads or purchases, etc, should be part of the store's listing - not the title. Well yeah, the theory is easy. I'd say "Yes" to what you say, IFF the metadata is usable as a search filter. Otherwise, it's of no use, thus not a better solution in practice.

whimsicalism 5y ago

> Metadata like file size, whether there are in-app ads or purchases, etc, should be part of the store's listing - not the title. ???? Did I miss the part where Google announced they were adding searchable metadata at the same time they eliminated adding this info to the title? If not, seems like a clearly anti-consumer move.

jimmaswell 5y ago
Listings show whether they have ads, in-app purchases etc. on a separate screen
- megatoaster 5y ago
  Searching 'no ads' seemingly won't query that tag, seemingly.
  - drusepth 5y ago
    Seems pretty trivial to eventually add, compared to trying to enforce correctness on results from user-provided tags in titles. I'm a little surprised you can't search for "no ads" apps outside of e.g. Pass listings, but I'm really glad they're not defaulting to just a title text search and cluttered listings of Farming Simulator [NO ADS] [NO IAPS] [NO REFERRALS] [NO TIMEWAITS] [NO DLC].
    - throwaway2048 5y ago
      its trivial to add, yet hasn't been added in almost 15 years, it is very much a title text search and nothing about this move indicates otherwise. there is no economic interest from google to make ad free apps actually findable, and no chance somebody making a better play store is going to usurp their position.
      - handrous 5y ago
        Even Apple doesn't have a "show only actually-free" toggle on their store for free apps with no IAP and no ads. Which sucks.

skratlo 5y ago

Absolutely NOT! It's waaay better to have huge multinational corporation dictate what's right and what's wrong and what's good and what's bad! And they do it for you my friend! For FREE!

krolden 5y ago
Well its their platform
- lillecarl 5y ago
  It doesn't work like that when you're one of two players in the segment, that's what antitrust is about. "It's their platform" would work well if there were any significant alternatives, which there aren't.
  - drusepth 5y ago
    There are many popular app stores on Android and you're free to use any of them (or none of them, if you just download apps directly from websites) without rooting your phone, jailbreaking, etc. A recent list of someone's favorites: https://42matters.com/blog/?p=the-best-of-2020-a-list-of-app-stores-for-android-apps https://42matters.com/blog/?p=the-best-of-2020-a-list-of-app...
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      Apple and Google together have 95% market share. From the perspective of an Android user, a lot of the alternatives are interesting. Especially F-Droid. From the perspective of the app developer, it doesn't work. You use Apple and Google or you lose 95% of the market. And the same constraint keeps it that way. You lose most of the Android market if you're not in Google Play, so nearly everything that isn't explicitly banned can be found in Google Play, so most users have no occasion to install any other app store and the friction to developers using another one to the exclusion of Google Play remains high.
  - entropicdrifter 5y ago

tut-urut-utut 5y ago

> What's the alternative? Have a crappy, paid-for, add filled, bloated app promote itself as "Cauliflower Cooker Lite - the #1 free cauliflower app. 100% ad-free". That's what we have on Amazon now. Looks like every single product contain all the metadata in product title. SEO spam from top to the bottom of the search results page. I hate it, but given how crappy filtering on both Amazon and Play store is, I still prefer to see more information about a product in the search result list than less, even if that means bloated titles. On the other hand, if both Amazon and Play store had usable filtering, all these bloated names would not be needed.

rpdillon 5y ago

What information folks are allowed to supply is distinct from ensuring its accuracy, I think. Misleading app names are a problem regardless, but given that many apps have ads and charge for the ad-free experience, it seems odd the developer isn't allowed to highlight that in the title. But Google can do as they wish: another reason alternative app stores have an important role to play.

discreditable 5y ago

Google themselves have mildly loaded app titles too. Google Chrome: Fast & Secure Google Go: A lighter, faster way to search Gboard - the Google Keyboard

xnx 5y ago

You could do a Google search something like this: [inurl:https://play.google.com/store/apps/ https://play.google.com/store/apps/ -"Contains Ads"]