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Considering that the former Director of National Intelligence, who committed perjury before congress, is a regular CNN contributor and go-to guy for commentary,

by pwned1 5y ago

Considering that the former Director of National Intelligence, who committed perjury before congress, is a regular CNN contributor and go-to guy for commentary, I think the answer is pretty clear.

Victerius 5y ago
You should read his book, Facts and Fears. No perjury was committed. The question was incorrectly phrased and a lot of context was left out.
- cool_dude85 5y ago
  Wait, he says in his book that he didn't commit perjury? Well, that lets him off the hook then.
- adolph 5y ago
  Or we can refer to Wikipedia in which Clapper’s excuse is (paraphrases) “I forgot” and “they weren’t supposed to ask about something classified” to which Wyden replied “he got the questions in advance so he could tell us not to ask about classified stuff.” Wyden then asked Clapper, "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" He responded, "No, sir." Wyden asked, "It does not?" and Clapper said, "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly." […] In Clapper's 2018 memoir, he provides a fuller explanation of the incident: ...because the NSA program under Section 215 was highly classified, Senator Wyden wouldn't or shouldn't have been asking questions that required classified answers on camera....my error had been forgetting about Section 215, but even if I had remembered it, there still would have been no acceptable, unclassified way for me to answer the question in an open hearing. Even my saying, "We'll have to wait for the closed, classified session to discuss this," would have given something away. ...I ought to have sent a classified letter to Senator Wyden explaining my thoughts when I'd answered and that I misunderstood what he was actually asking me about. Yes, I made a mistake – a big one – when I responded, but I did not lie. I answered with truth in what I understood the context of the question to be. On June 11, U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) accused Clapper of not giving a "straight answer," noting that Clapper's office had been provided with the question a day in advance of the hearing and was given the opportunity following Clapper's testimony to amend his response. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    > I answered with truth in what I understood the context of the question to be. I love this quote. I can listen to someone ask me a question, discard what was asked and pretend I was asked another question, then reply to my own imagination. These people are sociopaths
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      I think you would be considered more of a sociopath when you can't consider just how incredibly different human perceptions can be
      - ALittleLight 5y ago
        Clapper wasn't asked a vague question and he didn't answer ambiguously. There is no room for "how incredibly different human perceptions can be". Clapper was asked a direct question in sworn testimony before Congress and brazenly lied. Repeatedly. That Clapper faced no real consequences for his perjury and his part in violating the Constitution and the rights and privacy of all Americans simply shows how little power Congress and the American people have over the villains and criminals in the intelligence services.
- exogenousdata 5y ago
  Michael Flynn plead guilty to the charges. He signed the statement of offense[0] with his personal lawyer. Simply because Mr Flynn chose to write a book of fiction afterwards does not change the fact that he admitted his guilt to the courts under penalty of perjury. "The preceding statement is a summary, made for the purpose of providing the Court with a factual basis for my guilty plea to the charge against me. It does not include all of the facts known to me regarding this offense. I make this statement knowingly and voluntarily and because I am, in fact, guilty of the crime charged. No threats have been made to me nor am I under the influence of anything that could impede my ability to understand this Statement of the Offense fully. I have read every word of this Statement of the Offense, or have had it read to me. Pursuant to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11, after consulting with my attorneys, I agree and stipulate to this Statement of the Offense, and declare under penalty of perjury that it is true and correct." [0] - https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download
  - pwned1 5y ago
    We're talking about Clapper, not Flynn.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    Flynn was entrapped and his family threatened: https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406tBLdwqoZ&t=703 https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406...
    - unclebucknasty 5y ago
      Was he also entrapped into running around the country taking QAnon oaths? Was he entrapped into calling for a Myanmar-style coup in the U.S.? Was he entrapped into plotting the kidnapping of a Turkish dissident in contravention of official U.S. policy? Was he entrapped into failing to register his work on behalf of a foreign government? Was he entrapped into neglecting to disclose contacts with Russian officials? Was he entrapped into meeting with Putin and accepting tens of thousands of dollars from Russian state media? Stuff just keeps happening to poor Mike and, to top it all off, the mean ol' FBI went out of their way to entrap him for no good reason (it was on YouTube, so it must be true).
- sneak 5y ago
  Please don't make false claims. You can argue that he should have lied (for whatever reason) under oath, but you cannot argue that he didn't lie under oath.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    Considering the context, that's not exactly what happened: https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406tBLdwqoZ&t=703 https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406...
- Zigurd 5y ago
  "No perjury was committed." is true if you believe he was bound to lie under the circumstances. Is there a law that says so, or that says such a lie does not constitute perjury?
  - joconde 5y ago
    Well what does the law says if someone under oath gets asked for classified information they aren't allowed to disclose, and saying that it's classified would itself disclose a secret? Maybe there just wasn't a clearly good answer.

by pwned1 5y ago

Considering that the former Director of National Intelligence, who committed perjury before congress, is a regular CNN contributor and go-to guy for commentary, I think the answer is pretty clear.

Victerius 5y ago

You should read his book, Facts and Fears. No perjury was committed. The question was incorrectly phrased and a lot of context was left out.

cool_dude85 5y ago
Wait, he says in his book that he didn't commit perjury? Well, that lets him off the hook then.
adolph 5y ago
Or we can refer to Wikipedia in which Clapper’s excuse is (paraphrases) “I forgot” and “they weren’t supposed to ask about something classified” to which Wyden replied “he got the questions in advance so he could tell us not to ask about classified stuff.” Wyden then asked Clapper, "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" He responded, "No, sir." Wyden asked, "It does not?" and Clapper said, "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly." […] In Clapper's 2018 memoir, he provides a fuller explanation of the incident: ...because the NSA program under Section 215 was highly classified, Senator Wyden wouldn't or shouldn't have been asking questions that required classified answers on camera....my error had been forgetting about Section 215, but even if I had remembered it, there still would have been no acceptable, unclassified way for me to answer the question in an open hearing. Even my saying, "We'll have to wait for the closed, classified session to discuss this," would have given something away. ...I ought to have sent a classified letter to Senator Wyden explaining my thoughts when I'd answered and that I misunderstood what he was actually asking me about. Yes, I made a mistake – a big one – when I responded, but I did not lie. I answered with truth in what I understood the context of the question to be. On June 11, U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) accused Clapper of not giving a "straight answer," noting that Clapper's office had been provided with the question a day in advance of the hearing and was given the opportunity following Clapper's testimony to amend his response. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
- orangepurple 5y ago
  > I answered with truth in what I understood the context of the question to be. I love this quote. I can listen to someone ask me a question, discard what was asked and pretend I was asked another question, then reply to my own imagination. These people are sociopaths
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    I think you would be considered more of a sociopath when you can't consider just how incredibly different human perceptions can be
    - ALittleLight 5y ago
      Clapper wasn't asked a vague question and he didn't answer ambiguously. There is no room for "how incredibly different human perceptions can be". Clapper was asked a direct question in sworn testimony before Congress and brazenly lied. Repeatedly. That Clapper faced no real consequences for his perjury and his part in violating the Constitution and the rights and privacy of all Americans simply shows how little power Congress and the American people have over the villains and criminals in the intelligence services.
exogenousdata 5y ago
Michael Flynn plead guilty to the charges. He signed the statement of offense[0] with his personal lawyer. Simply because Mr Flynn chose to write a book of fiction afterwards does not change the fact that he admitted his guilt to the courts under penalty of perjury. "The preceding statement is a summary, made for the purpose of providing the Court with a factual basis for my guilty plea to the charge against me. It does not include all of the facts known to me regarding this offense. I make this statement knowingly and voluntarily and because I am, in fact, guilty of the crime charged. No threats have been made to me nor am I under the influence of anything that could impede my ability to understand this Statement of the Offense fully. I have read every word of this Statement of the Offense, or have had it read to me. Pursuant to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11, after consulting with my attorneys, I agree and stipulate to this Statement of the Offense, and declare under penalty of perjury that it is true and correct." [0] - https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download
- pwned1 5y ago
  We're talking about Clapper, not Flynn.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  Flynn was entrapped and his family threatened: https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406tBLdwqoZ&t=703 https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406...
  - unclebucknasty 5y ago
    Was he also entrapped into running around the country taking QAnon oaths? Was he entrapped into calling for a Myanmar-style coup in the U.S.? Was he entrapped into plotting the kidnapping of a Turkish dissident in contravention of official U.S. policy? Was he entrapped into failing to register his work on behalf of a foreign government? Was he entrapped into neglecting to disclose contacts with Russian officials? Was he entrapped into meeting with Putin and accepting tens of thousands of dollars from Russian state media? Stuff just keeps happening to poor Mike and, to top it all off, the mean ol' FBI went out of their way to entrap him for no good reason (it was on YouTube, so it must be true).
sneak 5y ago
Please don't make false claims. You can argue that he should have lied (for whatever reason) under oath, but you cannot argue that he didn't lie under oath.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  Considering the context, that's not exactly what happened: https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406tBLdwqoZ&t=703 https://youtu.be/svYdF4UvJf0?list=PLSwm32hsWAtRdktdmBtZCy406...
Zigurd 5y ago
"No perjury was committed." is true if you believe he was bound to lie under the circumstances. Is there a law that says so, or that says such a lie does not constitute perjury?
- joconde 5y ago
  Well what does the law says if someone under oath gets asked for classified information they aren't allowed to disclose, and saying that it's classified would itself disclose a secret? Maybe there just wasn't a clearly good answer.