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I'm italian, but I don't really understand the case. As far as I can understand reading italian news, no one was forced to subscribe to Prime program. Of course

I'm italian, but I don't really understand the case. As far as I can understand reading italian news, no one was forced to subscribe to Prime program. Of course Prime program is linked to Amazon logistic and subscribing to Prime program force to seller to use Amazon logistic, but I think this is part of the conditions to subscribe to it and it's just a business model. I guess, and it's just a guess knowing how Amazon is treated in Italy [0], italian retail companies had something to do with this fine. [0] https://messaggeroveneto.gelocal.it/udine/cronaca/2021/06/13/news/l-opposizione-contro-amazon-dubbi-sul-nuovo-magazzino-1.40386862 https://messaggeroveneto.gelocal.it/udine/cronaca/2021/06/13...

mmar 5y ago
That wasn't the case when Amazon Logistic didn't exist in Italy, at the time Prime orders were simply shipped using the italian couriers (SDA, GLS, BRT).
q1w2 5y ago
At a higher level, I believe what we're seeing with these cases, is the nationalization of giant corporations under the umbrella of their "home" governments, and thus, the malignment of these corporations by foreign governments. It's about power. It's about the inherent misalignment of corporate and government power structures in a world where the US established a "western" free-market system, and now that system is becoming more and more aligned with national governments. Initially through national spy programs, but now more generally in the broader economic landscape. As such, we see the Chinese forcing companies to headquarter and list their stocks in China (taking HK was a key part in facilitating that). We see Russia force Russians to use Russian social media. We see Europe punishing large US corporations financially to help grow their own competitors. The longer term result is more segregated power structures. There will also be a pressure to bring smaller nations into these corporate-government power structures, and thus large nations will want to amalgamate neighboring smaller states into their unified system. This is one big reason why China will likely re-take Taiwan in our lifetime, and Russia will likely (at least try) to fold in Ukraine into its system.
- mapster 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure it’s all about $. How much tax Amazon pays Italy. Italy can then disperse some of that to provinces to reduce tax burden on local retailers - who’ve taken a beating after Primes rollout.
josefx 5y ago
> no one was forced to subscribe to Prime program. When I search amazon as a user "prime" products get preferential treatment. There is even a filter for it in Amazons otherwise catastrophically bad search UI, there is no way to filter for prime like properties like free shipping or fast delivery, the only way to look for them is by selecting Amazon prime (TM).
contravariant 5y ago
The part that the market authority seems to have based their decision on is that the Prime label increases visibility on Amazon. By making a particular logistics company a requirement for the Prime label, Amazon's dominant market position raises sales for that logistics company. So far this isn't really debatable, what matters is whether this is an unfair use of Amazon's market dominance.
pacbard 5y ago
The Italian retail sector (i.e., small local shops) is ripe for disruption. The shops pretty much just buy from wholesalers and provide some local inventory in the shop. This usually comes with a high markup. Competition is highly regulated (e.g., sales can only happen during a certain time window each year, most places have a cap on the maximum discount, returns are close to non-existent). I am not sure what other value they add to the retail experience beyond maybe having a relationship with the shopkeeper and going in to shoot the shit while buying stuff. I'm not surprised that something like Amazon is able to disrupt the system. Even my parents have started buying stuff on Amazon instead of going to the store and they barely use a credit card. I'm also not surprised that the retail guild/cartel is pushing back through legal means. It will be interesting to see what will happen. My guess is that the Italian consumer will end up losing at the end and will have to pay more for stuff from Amazon.

mmar 5y ago

That wasn't the case when Amazon Logistic didn't exist in Italy, at the time Prime orders were simply shipped using the italian couriers (SDA, GLS, BRT).

q1w2 5y ago

At a higher level, I believe what we're seeing with these cases, is the nationalization of giant corporations under the umbrella of their "home" governments, and thus, the malignment of these corporations by foreign governments. It's about power. It's about the inherent misalignment of corporate and government power structures in a world where the US established a "western" free-market system, and now that system is becoming more and more aligned with national governments. Initially through national spy programs, but now more generally in the broader economic landscape. As such, we see the Chinese forcing companies to headquarter and list their stocks in China (taking HK was a key part in facilitating that). We see Russia force Russians to use Russian social media. We see Europe punishing large US corporations financially to help grow their own competitors. The longer term result is more segregated power structures. There will also be a pressure to bring smaller nations into these corporate-government power structures, and thus large nations will want to amalgamate neighboring smaller states into their unified system. This is one big reason why China will likely re-take Taiwan in our lifetime, and Russia will likely (at least try) to fold in Ukraine into its system.

mapster 5y ago
I’m pretty sure it’s all about $. How much tax Amazon pays Italy. Italy can then disperse some of that to provinces to reduce tax burden on local retailers - who’ve taken a beating after Primes rollout.

josefx 5y ago

> no one was forced to subscribe to Prime program. When I search amazon as a user "prime" products get preferential treatment. There is even a filter for it in Amazons otherwise catastrophically bad search UI, there is no way to filter for prime like properties like free shipping or fast delivery, the only way to look for them is by selecting Amazon prime (TM).

contravariant 5y ago

The part that the market authority seems to have based their decision on is that the Prime label increases visibility on Amazon. By making a particular logistics company a requirement for the Prime label, Amazon's dominant market position raises sales for that logistics company. So far this isn't really debatable, what matters is whether this is an unfair use of Amazon's market dominance.

pacbard 5y ago

The Italian retail sector (i.e., small local shops) is ripe for disruption. The shops pretty much just buy from wholesalers and provide some local inventory in the shop. This usually comes with a high markup. Competition is highly regulated (e.g., sales can only happen during a certain time window each year, most places have a cap on the maximum discount, returns are close to non-existent). I am not sure what other value they add to the retail experience beyond maybe having a relationship with the shopkeeper and going in to shoot the shit while buying stuff. I'm not surprised that something like Amazon is able to disrupt the system. Even my parents have started buying stuff on Amazon instead of going to the store and they barely use a credit card. I'm also not surprised that the retail guild/cartel is pushing back through legal means. It will be interesting to see what will happen. My guess is that the Italian consumer will end up losing at the end and will have to pay more for stuff from Amazon.