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Non American here, can someone explain to me what is unique about USA society that creates this situations? I mean, most of the world has unions, most countries

Non American here, can someone explain to me what is unique about USA society that creates this situations? I mean, most of the world has unions, most countries to a much greater extant than USA, and yet we don't see those horror stories of loss of work efficiency from anywhere else. What is unique about USA unions that drive those?

MattGaiser 5y ago
Maybe it is just normal in those countries? Each country has things which seem absurd in other countries but are so normal in others as to rarely be discussed.
jfengel 5y ago
Unions in the US have to be more defensive, because they're constantly under attack. Unions and management are pitted against each other as enemies, and the only way for the union to protect its members is to make and enforce rules. Each of those rules is in place to protect against some past abuse, and in that hostile environment, they know that flexibility on the rules invites a return of that abuse. Not that everything in Europe is sweetness and light with unions, but they are more widely accepted. That leaves more room for amicable rule-making and flexibility. The anti-union forces in the US, of course, put all of the blame for that on the unions -- which is exactly the kind of hostility that makes it difficult for the unions to negotiate flexible, reasonable contracts.
xenadu02 5y ago
Not all unions are like that but some definitely are. Some unions seem to be connected to organized crime or powerful political players and protect their turf very strongly. eg Longshoremen in New York. The union is used as a make-work organization (hire my cousin for a high rate where he barely shows up and I'll fix $X problem for you). A portion of dues goes to political lobbying which gives them political power - eg in California the PG&E Lineman's union is one of the reasons PG&E hasn't been nuked from orbit given how badly they maintain infrastructure and how high their cost for electricity is - Silicon Valley Power charges $0.129c/kWh where a mile down the road PG&E charges $0.28c/kWh-$0.33c/kWh. If they were actually subject to a free market they'd have been liquidated long ago, but the union fights to protect them. Others are more like European unions thus are more reasonable. In the limited times I've worked with IEW union electricians in the bay area they were reasonable people who did good work without any slacking, fake make-work, or outrageous prices.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Maybe it is just normal in those countries? Each country has things which seem absurd in other countries but are so normal in others as to rarely be discussed.

jfengel 5y ago

Unions in the US have to be more defensive, because they're constantly under attack. Unions and management are pitted against each other as enemies, and the only way for the union to protect its members is to make and enforce rules. Each of those rules is in place to protect against some past abuse, and in that hostile environment, they know that flexibility on the rules invites a return of that abuse. Not that everything in Europe is sweetness and light with unions, but they are more widely accepted. That leaves more room for amicable rule-making and flexibility. The anti-union forces in the US, of course, put all of the blame for that on the unions -- which is exactly the kind of hostility that makes it difficult for the unions to negotiate flexible, reasonable contracts.

xenadu02 5y ago

Not all unions are like that but some definitely are. Some unions seem to be connected to organized crime or powerful political players and protect their turf very strongly. eg Longshoremen in New York. The union is used as a make-work organization (hire my cousin for a high rate where he barely shows up and I'll fix $X problem for you). A portion of dues goes to political lobbying which gives them political power - eg in California the PG&E Lineman's union is one of the reasons PG&E hasn't been nuked from orbit given how badly they maintain infrastructure and how high their cost for electricity is - Silicon Valley Power charges $0.129c/kWh where a mile down the road PG&E charges $0.28c/kWh-$0.33c/kWh. If they were actually subject to a free market they'd have been liquidated long ago, but the union fights to protect them. Others are more like European unions thus are more reasonable. In the limited times I've worked with IEW union electricians in the bay area they were reasonable people who did good work without any slacking, fake make-work, or outrageous prices.