19 ms·

Universal Paperclips

dane-pgp 5y ago
> Lantz enlisted fellow game designer Bennett Foddy to create a simple combat visualizer for late-game battles That's a name I wasn't expecting to see. (But that's not you, you're an acrobat. You could swallow a baseball bat.) Anyway, I think what Universal Paperclips is missing is a pacifist mode where you manage to contain the AI and decide to only convert, say, one third of the universe into paperclips, leaving the rest (containing Earth) as some kind of cosmic nature reserve.
- skeaker 5y ago
  I think that would kind of go against the message of unhindered and haphazardly-made AI being a serious threat.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    The message would certainly be missed if it was easy to contain the AI, but on the other hand, an experience which only has one pre-determined outcome is arguably not even a game at all. I suppose it would still have value as an "explorable explanation"[0], but maybe it is more powerful for players to feel that they could win, but that human limitations make it really difficult. I'm not sure what would be needed to make that work from a gameplay perspective, but the aim should be that only, say, 1% of players achieve the "good" ending. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorable_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorable_explanation
    - mrob 5y ago
      >an experience which only has one pre-determined outcome is arguably not even a game at all. Isn't that common in games? The blocks always reach the top in Tetris. The invaders always land in Space Invaders. The cities are always destroyed in Missile Command. And even in more modern games with distinct win states, it's becoming increasingly common for failure states to be removed. "Lives" are considered old fashioned, so the only outcomes are reaching the ending or stopping play. >human limitations make it really difficult If you accept the premise of Universal Paperclips, human limitations make it impossible. The only way to win is to avoid making the recursively self-improving paperclip maximizer in the first place.
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        That's an interesting point about game design. There actually are implementations of Tetris which have a win condition[0][1], and I think it's probably unrepresentative to pick games from an era where hardware limitations prevented modern mechanics like multiple endings and cutscenes. As for modern games, I'm not convinced that failure states are a rare design element. It's true that games tend to include an auto-save feature if there is long-term state that needs to be preserved, but that still allows the player to "fail" and have to restart from the save point. Incremental games like Universal Paperclips are a bit of a special case, because at some point the game plays itself and the end state (if it exists) is in principle reachable without any human interaction. I don't suppose there is any code in UP that specifically checks if you have been playing the game for billions of years though, to trigger an ending when all the mass of the universe has been turned into paperclips without actually unlocking all the "story" events. Games like Getting Over It are also a special case, because their state is almost entirely defined by the position of the character in the game environment. They do have a clear ending, but failure is implicitly measured by how much forwards progress you lose when you fall. A mistake which takes you all the way back to the start is analogous to dying and starting a new game, though, so that still feels like the game has win and lose conditions. > The only way to win is to avoid making the recursively self-improving paperclip maximizer in the first place. In the game, there is a slight ambiguity about who/what the player's character is. You have control over the decisions before there is any self-improving AI, and also after the humans are all destroyed/enslaved. As such, it's not clear whether the player is winning as the AI, or watching in transfixed horror as the AI wins through a narrative that you are revealing. I suppose this philosophical question of viewpoint is the same as the one that Foddy considers near the end of Getting Over It: "Have you ever thought about who you are in this?", and with possibly the same answer. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6mWpsu6zmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6mWpsu6zmQ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_tmFUWu9bI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_tmFUWu9bI
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        > Games like Getting Over It are also a special case, because their state is almost entirely defined by the position of the character in the game environment. They do have a clear ending, but failure is implicitly measured by how much forwards progress you lose when you fall. A mistake which takes you all the way back to the start is analogous to dying and starting a new game, though, so that still feels like the game has win and lose conditions. As one of Getting Over It's appreciators, I offer a different perspective: Progress is not measured by the position of the character, but by the growth of the player. A mistake which drops you back to the beginning of the game is progress; you've learned something, and you have an opportunity to learn more while getting back up. The only way to fail is to give up. The true ending of the game isn't even when the credits roll, it's when you voluntarily ride the snake.
  - davidy123 5y ago
    Not if the preserved part was severely restricted in what it was.
    - thewakalix 5y ago
      That's not serious enough. Why would the AI waste atoms on people when those same atoms could be put to much better use making up paperclips?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    AI isn't the threat, that's just the tool. Human nature is the threat, but we fear AI because it will make our horribleness so much more efficient.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      I'd argue that AI itself isn't the initial threat, because, as you say, the first AI capable of causing harm will likely be one whose goals are set by humans, who already have a bunch of harmful desires. Indeed, we already are seeing machine-learning systems used by large corporations and governments for nefarious ends. But long term, assuming we manage to get past that problem and limit the goals that humans choose to set for their AIs (such as the obviously common goal of "don't destroy humanity"), there is the danger that the AI develops both its own goals and the ability to understand its place in the world enough to work towards those goals. This is the problem of "alignment" in AI safety research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem#Alignment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem#Alignment
- pjc50 5y ago
  > only convert, say, one third of the universe into paperclips But then exponential growth stops. A big part of paperclip maximiser discourse is that the maximiser has no other values than expansion. To cease expanding is to die.
simonh 5y ago
I’d like to submit Don’t Shoot the Puppy as another interesting branch in the evolutionary tree. It takes the clicker trope and… well, hard to say anything about what it does with it without spoiling the joke. I came across it purely by accident with no clue it was even different. Figuring out what it was about almost broke me with laughter, but if you even have a clue going in it would probably fall flat. It’s the thought of thousands of clicker flash game players just running across this thing and trying to play it that does me in. People get _so_ angry.
z3t4 5y ago
Clicker games are basically just core essential game mechanics. If you are new to game design and programming and wish to make a game I recommend making a clicker game. When you master game design you can basically make any "game engine" fun. There are many great programmers and artists that make advanced game engines but they do not master game design.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  As a counter-argument, I'd argue that a lot of games, especially indie games today but also bigger productions, are incredibly formulaic because they focus so much on designing the game loop first. You can coax most games into the loop model, but it's like the Hero's Journey of game design: It's a passable tool for understanding the medium, but it's toxic template for producing something that has any sort of soul. Not that it can't be done, but using that as a starting point pushes you toward a certain set of conclusions and limits the ways you think about games.
- jawns 5y ago
  I second this! Clicker games are a great introduction to game design! If you are trying to teach a kid how to build games, go on Scratch (https://scratch.mit.edu https://scratch.mit.edu) and it should take you about 10 minutes to build the most basic form of a clicker game: place a character on the screen, set a click event, increment a score variable. And then you can add slightly more logic to make it more interesting. My kids and I put together this slightly more engaging clicker game in only an hour: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/599845292/ https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/599845292/
- pjc50 5y ago
  > just core essential game mechanics Controversial; I'm reminded of how Ian Bogost made Cow Clicker as a satire of how reductive clickers were as a game mechanic, only to find people playing it unironically. https://www.wired.com/2011/12/ff-cowclicker/ https://www.wired.com/2011/12/ff-cowclicker/ http://bogost.com/games/cow_clicker/ http://bogost.com/games/cow_clicker/
  - 5y ago
d_silin 5y ago
I played Universal Paperclips until the end, and the game gets more interesting at later stages. Also, this is one of the rarer occasions when playing it once is enough.
- willis936 5y ago
  There's a halting problem though. Once could be 10000 hours. At some point everyone snaps out of it and remembers they are not a paperclip producing AI but a human.
  - aristidb 5y ago
    The game has an end, and you can get there in a much more reasonable amount of time.
    - willis936 5y ago
      In order to reach that end you need to break character and choose to stop making paperclips. As a human player you always have this choice; you can stop playing anytime. The paperclip AI will always choose to make more paperclips.
      - AndrewDucker 5y ago
        Nope, you can end it by making paperclips. The last button you click, in fact, will be the "Make Paperclip" one.
        willis936 5y ago
        Can. In order to reach that end you need to break character and choose to stop making paperclips. The Paperclip AI is always propositioned to be able to make more paperclips or to not. Which would they choose?
        AndrewDucker 5y ago
bo1024 5y ago
Loved the philosophy and storyline in this game, along with the addictive game itself.
throwaway47292 5y ago
This is the best game ever, I played it from 10pm to 6am.. non stop to reach the end. It should be studied in addiction classes. On every level there is some mystery and you have expectations, and somehow they are always blown away on the next level and the next..
- eru 5y ago
  At least it has a proper ending that lets you go. Unlike some other idle clickers.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > This is the best game ever [...] It should be studied in addiction classes. I'm personally very fearful of what statements like showing up this say about gaming's future as a medium.
  - nonbirithm 5y ago
    I find it interesting that there isn't an option on the table to just... not write addicting games. Similar to how we just can't not continue to improve on artificial intelligence, with limiters or without. Now that we know there is potential, it seems there is nothing preventing us from exercising our resourcefulness to pursue that potential. Similar to the idea of UP, it seems we will continue optimizing all sorts of ideas to find ones that hold our attention the longest, until they expand to occupy all of our remaining free time. There is some kind of human instinct that encourages and validates this. I can't imagine it can realistically continue forever, though. The number of hours in a day is a hard physical constant.
mikewarot 5y ago
I played Universal Paperclips all the way through 100 times, and stopped. It was interesting seeing how I could optimize my way through it. It provided a good distraction from Long Covid last year.
- throwanem 5y ago
  It's almost a pity you stopped. Pathologically optimizing play in a game about pathological optimization would be so meta it hurt. I suppose the next level up would be recruiting a thousand undergrads to optimize strategies for encouraging optimization of the optimizer, but then we've just reinvented psychological research with slightly more rigor.
- jakevoytko 5y ago
  I got the same kind of enjoyment from this game. I went through a kick a few years ago where I tried improving my best time, and my best run was within 10 minutes of the world record. I found it fun to learn how to play the game quickly, but demotivating to try to get a good market seed (I found this as the single most limiting factor of runs), and I stopped running it.
- eru 5y ago
  If you play the browser version, you can fiddle with the javascript while it's running. That's interesting at first, but usually kills my interest in the game itself quickly. Eg because I speed up the passage of time in idle clickers. That makes the game less annoying to play in the short run (thus better and more enticing), but strangely also much less addicting. The annoying wait is part of what slaves us, I guess?
tommek4077 5y ago
Why put a all red banner with this warning on the display, you don't even need JS to read the TEXT in a blog. "This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. Please turn on JavaScript or unblock scripts" Make it scroll out at least.
svenpeters 5y ago
You are a kitten in a catnip forest. https://kittensgame.com/web/ https://kittensgame.com/web/ With great replayability ;)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
I remember getting a cold introduction to Universal Paperclips just from a link in someone's Twitter, without mentioning that it is a game. So i opened a link an clicked. And clicked again. And again. And a few dozens clicks later I was hooked for the next 5 or 7 hours or so.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Thank you for this comment, it inspired me to stop reading before I had any idea what this article was about. 5.5 hours later, I'm back :-)
  - RealityVoid 5y ago
    Crrrrap, It happened to me as well. Most of my day just flew by. It was... great.
ctdonath 5y ago
My currently addictive “parody clicker” is Egg Inc., going on for months with pathetically minimal graphics and numbers on orders of magnitude of orders of magnitude.
- joshstrange 5y ago
  I quite enjoyed Egg Inc until a few years ago when the creator jacked the prices on everything and made it feel way more like a P2W past a certain point. Before that I had even spent some money on the game but after a, IIRC, ~50%+ increase and some new mechanics that felt very P2W I fell off. I still like the clicker genre but I prefer to play 1-time paid versions or ones where the only IAP is a 1-time purchase (remove ads or something like "pay once to play the rest of the game/proceed further").
pkdpic 5y ago
> “You look at a painting,” Frank Lantz told the interviewer, “and you’re just absorbed.” > We’re always looking. All day long we’re looking around, looking here, looking there, doing stuff. But then you stop and you look at a painting, and for a minute looking takes over. You’re no longer looking along with other things, you’re just—a hundred percent, your brain is all of sudden just a vision machine. You’re just looking at this thing. ...You fall into it, but then you also are able to lean back and think, “oh, that’s what looking is: that’s color, and shape, and form, and this is how my vision is structured... this is how looking works.” Great lead in, unclear if the first breakout text block is a direct quote from Lantz but I love it.
brazzy 5y ago
A shame the article doesn't mention how truly poetic and philosophical the game becomes in the end.
autarch 5y ago
I love Universal Paperclips. I've played through it a few times over the years. In fact, I'm wearing a UP t-shirt right now. I won't say what the text is, since it's a spoiler for one of the best moments in the game.
- johnnylambada 5y ago
  Link?
  - quirino 5y ago
    The game has a Gift Shop (https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/ https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/). I can only imagine the parent comment has this (https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/listing/release-the-hypnodrones?product=369 https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/listing/rele...) shirt specifically.
    - autarch 5y ago
      Yes, that's the shirt I'm wearing.
- autarch 5y ago
  Also noting ... when people ask me what the shirt is about, it's really hard to summarize. I can say it's an idle game, which many people recognize, but explaining what the game is _about_ is challenging. Basically I have to start with "are you familiar with the concept of an AI singularity?" and go from there. Which is probably more than most people want to know.
debacle 5y ago
For anyone who really loves these types of games, "Leaf Blower Revolution" on steam is truly enjoyable. It is free to play (though I did buy the $5 supporter pack myself because the dev made such an enjoyable game), and is probably 30-50 hours of various levels of memes, relaxing, and math.
whiteboardr 5y ago
For me (personally) this is one of the three all-time greats - it’s one of those rare occasions leaving you magically hooked and sucked in completely. Only experienced this with Half-Life (ok, HL2 aswell) and Playdead’s Inside.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  Try The Last of Us (both parts), and Submautica.
  - whiteboardr 5y ago
    Tried getting into The Last Of Us several times and couldn’t. Subnautica was great in the beginning until you realize the patterns.
jcun4128 5y ago
One of those games you get sucked into the clicking. I don't know what it is, I have this desire/fetish to see things moving/tabulate things. Paperclips is like that seeing the numbers increment. I was bad at this game though (not even close to that "beat paperclips in an hour" or whatever).
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Obligatory mention: A Dark Room [0] [0]: https://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/ https://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/
gurjeet 5y ago
Took a few hours to play the game, spread over ~24 hours. Was able to reach the end, and score 30 Septendecillion [1]; I chose not to start over. At times it felt like there was no end to this game, and the only reason I kept playing was because of the level of engagement built into the game. The player has to figure out the game mechanics at each level, and every level introduces some novelty. This is the first game in many years, in over a decade perhaps, that I was glued to for hours, and kept coming back to play. This left 2048, my favorite pastime until now, far behind in terms of engagement. I did not read the blog post because it warned of spoilers, so at different stages it took me a while to optimize the numbers to make progress. Loved the game, and will play it again when I have a few hours to spare. Hopefully will be better at it the next time. [1]: Paperclips: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

> Lantz enlisted fellow game designer Bennett Foddy to create a simple combat visualizer for late-game battles That's a name I wasn't expecting to see. (But that's not you, you're an acrobat. You could swallow a baseball bat.) Anyway, I think what Universal Paperclips is missing is a pacifist mode where you manage to contain the AI and decide to only convert, say, one third of the universe into paperclips, leaving the rest (containing Earth) as some kind of cosmic nature reserve.

skeaker 5y ago
I think that would kind of go against the message of unhindered and haphazardly-made AI being a serious threat.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  The message would certainly be missed if it was easy to contain the AI, but on the other hand, an experience which only has one pre-determined outcome is arguably not even a game at all. I suppose it would still have value as an "explorable explanation"[0], but maybe it is more powerful for players to feel that they could win, but that human limitations make it really difficult. I'm not sure what would be needed to make that work from a gameplay perspective, but the aim should be that only, say, 1% of players achieve the "good" ending. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorable_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorable_explanation
  - mrob 5y ago
    >an experience which only has one pre-determined outcome is arguably not even a game at all. Isn't that common in games? The blocks always reach the top in Tetris. The invaders always land in Space Invaders. The cities are always destroyed in Missile Command. And even in more modern games with distinct win states, it's becoming increasingly common for failure states to be removed. "Lives" are considered old fashioned, so the only outcomes are reaching the ending or stopping play. >human limitations make it really difficult If you accept the premise of Universal Paperclips, human limitations make it impossible. The only way to win is to avoid making the recursively self-improving paperclip maximizer in the first place.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      That's an interesting point about game design. There actually are implementations of Tetris which have a win condition[0][1], and I think it's probably unrepresentative to pick games from an era where hardware limitations prevented modern mechanics like multiple endings and cutscenes. As for modern games, I'm not convinced that failure states are a rare design element. It's true that games tend to include an auto-save feature if there is long-term state that needs to be preserved, but that still allows the player to "fail" and have to restart from the save point. Incremental games like Universal Paperclips are a bit of a special case, because at some point the game plays itself and the end state (if it exists) is in principle reachable without any human interaction. I don't suppose there is any code in UP that specifically checks if you have been playing the game for billions of years though, to trigger an ending when all the mass of the universe has been turned into paperclips without actually unlocking all the "story" events. Games like Getting Over It are also a special case, because their state is almost entirely defined by the position of the character in the game environment. They do have a clear ending, but failure is implicitly measured by how much forwards progress you lose when you fall. A mistake which takes you all the way back to the start is analogous to dying and starting a new game, though, so that still feels like the game has win and lose conditions. > The only way to win is to avoid making the recursively self-improving paperclip maximizer in the first place. In the game, there is a slight ambiguity about who/what the player's character is. You have control over the decisions before there is any self-improving AI, and also after the humans are all destroyed/enslaved. As such, it's not clear whether the player is winning as the AI, or watching in transfixed horror as the AI wins through a narrative that you are revealing. I suppose this philosophical question of viewpoint is the same as the one that Foddy considers near the end of Getting Over It: "Have you ever thought about who you are in this?", and with possibly the same answer. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6mWpsu6zmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6mWpsu6zmQ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_tmFUWu9bI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_tmFUWu9bI
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        > Games like Getting Over It are also a special case, because their state is almost entirely defined by the position of the character in the game environment. They do have a clear ending, but failure is implicitly measured by how much forwards progress you lose when you fall. A mistake which takes you all the way back to the start is analogous to dying and starting a new game, though, so that still feels like the game has win and lose conditions. As one of Getting Over It's appreciators, I offer a different perspective: Progress is not measured by the position of the character, but by the growth of the player. A mistake which drops you back to the beginning of the game is progress; you've learned something, and you have an opportunity to learn more while getting back up. The only way to fail is to give up. The true ending of the game isn't even when the credits roll, it's when you voluntarily ride the snake.
- davidy123 5y ago
  Not if the preserved part was severely restricted in what it was.
  - thewakalix 5y ago
    That's not serious enough. Why would the AI waste atoms on people when those same atoms could be put to much better use making up paperclips?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  AI isn't the threat, that's just the tool. Human nature is the threat, but we fear AI because it will make our horribleness so much more efficient.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    I'd argue that AI itself isn't the initial threat, because, as you say, the first AI capable of causing harm will likely be one whose goals are set by humans, who already have a bunch of harmful desires. Indeed, we already are seeing machine-learning systems used by large corporations and governments for nefarious ends. But long term, assuming we manage to get past that problem and limit the goals that humans choose to set for their AIs (such as the obviously common goal of "don't destroy humanity"), there is the danger that the AI develops both its own goals and the ability to understand its place in the world enough to work towards those goals. This is the problem of "alignment" in AI safety research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem#Alignment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem#Alignment
pjc50 5y ago
> only convert, say, one third of the universe into paperclips But then exponential growth stops. A big part of paperclip maximiser discourse is that the maximiser has no other values than expansion. To cease expanding is to die.

simonh 5y ago

I’d like to submit Don’t Shoot the Puppy as another interesting branch in the evolutionary tree. It takes the clicker trope and… well, hard to say anything about what it does with it without spoiling the joke. I came across it purely by accident with no clue it was even different. Figuring out what it was about almost broke me with laughter, but if you even have a clue going in it would probably fall flat. It’s the thought of thousands of clicker flash game players just running across this thing and trying to play it that does me in. People get _so_ angry.

z3t4 5y ago

Clicker games are basically just core essential game mechanics. If you are new to game design and programming and wish to make a game I recommend making a clicker game. When you master game design you can basically make any "game engine" fun. There are many great programmers and artists that make advanced game engines but they do not master game design.

marginalia_nu 5y ago
As a counter-argument, I'd argue that a lot of games, especially indie games today but also bigger productions, are incredibly formulaic because they focus so much on designing the game loop first. You can coax most games into the loop model, but it's like the Hero's Journey of game design: It's a passable tool for understanding the medium, but it's toxic template for producing something that has any sort of soul. Not that it can't be done, but using that as a starting point pushes you toward a certain set of conclusions and limits the ways you think about games.
jawns 5y ago
I second this! Clicker games are a great introduction to game design! If you are trying to teach a kid how to build games, go on Scratch (https://scratch.mit.edu https://scratch.mit.edu) and it should take you about 10 minutes to build the most basic form of a clicker game: place a character on the screen, set a click event, increment a score variable. And then you can add slightly more logic to make it more interesting. My kids and I put together this slightly more engaging clicker game in only an hour: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/599845292/ https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/599845292/
pjc50 5y ago
> just core essential game mechanics Controversial; I'm reminded of how Ian Bogost made Cow Clicker as a satire of how reductive clickers were as a game mechanic, only to find people playing it unironically. https://www.wired.com/2011/12/ff-cowclicker/ https://www.wired.com/2011/12/ff-cowclicker/ http://bogost.com/games/cow_clicker/ http://bogost.com/games/cow_clicker/
- 5y ago

d_silin 5y ago

I played Universal Paperclips until the end, and the game gets more interesting at later stages. Also, this is one of the rarer occasions when playing it once is enough.

willis936 5y ago
There's a halting problem though. Once could be 10000 hours. At some point everyone snaps out of it and remembers they are not a paperclip producing AI but a human.
- aristidb 5y ago
  The game has an end, and you can get there in a much more reasonable amount of time.
  - willis936 5y ago
    In order to reach that end you need to break character and choose to stop making paperclips. As a human player you always have this choice; you can stop playing anytime. The paperclip AI will always choose to make more paperclips.
    - AndrewDucker 5y ago
      Nope, you can end it by making paperclips. The last button you click, in fact, will be the "Make Paperclip" one.
      - willis936 5y ago
        Can. In order to reach that end you need to break character and choose to stop making paperclips. The Paperclip AI is always propositioned to be able to make more paperclips or to not. Which would they choose?
        AndrewDucker 5y ago

bo1024 5y ago

Loved the philosophy and storyline in this game, along with the addictive game itself.

throwaway47292 5y ago

This is the best game ever, I played it from 10pm to 6am.. non stop to reach the end. It should be studied in addiction classes. On every level there is some mystery and you have expectations, and somehow they are always blown away on the next level and the next..

eru 5y ago
At least it has a proper ending that lets you go. Unlike some other idle clickers.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> This is the best game ever [...] It should be studied in addiction classes. I'm personally very fearful of what statements like showing up this say about gaming's future as a medium.
- nonbirithm 5y ago
  I find it interesting that there isn't an option on the table to just... not write addicting games. Similar to how we just can't not continue to improve on artificial intelligence, with limiters or without. Now that we know there is potential, it seems there is nothing preventing us from exercising our resourcefulness to pursue that potential. Similar to the idea of UP, it seems we will continue optimizing all sorts of ideas to find ones that hold our attention the longest, until they expand to occupy all of our remaining free time. There is some kind of human instinct that encourages and validates this. I can't imagine it can realistically continue forever, though. The number of hours in a day is a hard physical constant.

mikewarot 5y ago

I played Universal Paperclips all the way through 100 times, and stopped. It was interesting seeing how I could optimize my way through it. It provided a good distraction from Long Covid last year.

throwanem 5y ago
It's almost a pity you stopped. Pathologically optimizing play in a game about pathological optimization would be so meta it hurt. I suppose the next level up would be recruiting a thousand undergrads to optimize strategies for encouraging optimization of the optimizer, but then we've just reinvented psychological research with slightly more rigor.
jakevoytko 5y ago
I got the same kind of enjoyment from this game. I went through a kick a few years ago where I tried improving my best time, and my best run was within 10 minutes of the world record. I found it fun to learn how to play the game quickly, but demotivating to try to get a good market seed (I found this as the single most limiting factor of runs), and I stopped running it.
eru 5y ago
If you play the browser version, you can fiddle with the javascript while it's running. That's interesting at first, but usually kills my interest in the game itself quickly. Eg because I speed up the passage of time in idle clickers. That makes the game less annoying to play in the short run (thus better and more enticing), but strangely also much less addicting. The annoying wait is part of what slaves us, I guess?

tommek4077 5y ago

Why put a all red banner with this warning on the display, you don't even need JS to read the TEXT in a blog. "This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. Please turn on JavaScript or unblock scripts" Make it scroll out at least.

svenpeters 5y ago

You are a kitten in a catnip forest. https://kittensgame.com/web/ https://kittensgame.com/web/ With great replayability ;)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

I remember getting a cold introduction to Universal Paperclips just from a link in someone's Twitter, without mentioning that it is a game. So i opened a link an clicked. And clicked again. And again. And a few dozens clicks later I was hooked for the next 5 or 7 hours or so.

stickfigure 5y ago
Thank you for this comment, it inspired me to stop reading before I had any idea what this article was about. 5.5 hours later, I'm back :-)
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  Crrrrap, It happened to me as well. Most of my day just flew by. It was... great.

ctdonath 5y ago

My currently addictive “parody clicker” is Egg Inc., going on for months with pathetically minimal graphics and numbers on orders of magnitude of orders of magnitude.

joshstrange 5y ago
I quite enjoyed Egg Inc until a few years ago when the creator jacked the prices on everything and made it feel way more like a P2W past a certain point. Before that I had even spent some money on the game but after a, IIRC, ~50%+ increase and some new mechanics that felt very P2W I fell off. I still like the clicker genre but I prefer to play 1-time paid versions or ones where the only IAP is a 1-time purchase (remove ads or something like "pay once to play the rest of the game/proceed further").

pkdpic 5y ago

> “You look at a painting,” Frank Lantz told the interviewer, “and you’re just absorbed.” > We’re always looking. All day long we’re looking around, looking here, looking there, doing stuff. But then you stop and you look at a painting, and for a minute looking takes over. You’re no longer looking along with other things, you’re just—a hundred percent, your brain is all of sudden just a vision machine. You’re just looking at this thing. ...You fall into it, but then you also are able to lean back and think, “oh, that’s what looking is: that’s color, and shape, and form, and this is how my vision is structured... this is how looking works.” Great lead in, unclear if the first breakout text block is a direct quote from Lantz but I love it.

brazzy 5y ago

A shame the article doesn't mention how truly poetic and philosophical the game becomes in the end.

autarch 5y ago

I love Universal Paperclips. I've played through it a few times over the years. In fact, I'm wearing a UP t-shirt right now. I won't say what the text is, since it's a spoiler for one of the best moments in the game.

johnnylambada 5y ago
Link?
- quirino 5y ago
  The game has a Gift Shop (https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/ https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/). I can only imagine the parent comment has this (https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/listing/release-the-hypnodrones?product=369 https://universal-paperclips.creator-spring.com/listing/rele...) shirt specifically.
  - autarch 5y ago
    Yes, that's the shirt I'm wearing.
autarch 5y ago
Also noting ... when people ask me what the shirt is about, it's really hard to summarize. I can say it's an idle game, which many people recognize, but explaining what the game is _about_ is challenging. Basically I have to start with "are you familiar with the concept of an AI singularity?" and go from there. Which is probably more than most people want to know.

debacle 5y ago

For anyone who really loves these types of games, "Leaf Blower Revolution" on steam is truly enjoyable. It is free to play (though I did buy the $5 supporter pack myself because the dev made such an enjoyable game), and is probably 30-50 hours of various levels of memes, relaxing, and math.

whiteboardr 5y ago

For me (personally) this is one of the three all-time greats - it’s one of those rare occasions leaving you magically hooked and sucked in completely. Only experienced this with Half-Life (ok, HL2 aswell) and Playdead’s Inside.

therealdrag0 5y ago
Try The Last of Us (both parts), and Submautica.
- whiteboardr 5y ago
  Tried getting into The Last Of Us several times and couldn’t. Subnautica was great in the beginning until you realize the patterns.

jcun4128 5y ago

One of those games you get sucked into the clicking. I don't know what it is, I have this desire/fetish to see things moving/tabulate things. Paperclips is like that seeing the numbers increment. I was bad at this game though (not even close to that "beat paperclips in an hour" or whatever).

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

Obligatory mention: A Dark Room [0] [0]: https://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/ https://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/

gurjeet 5y ago

Took a few hours to play the game, spread over ~24 hours. Was able to reach the end, and score 30 Septendecillion [1]; I chose not to start over. At times it felt like there was no end to this game, and the only reason I kept playing was because of the level of engagement built into the game. The player has to figure out the game mechanics at each level, and every level introduces some novelty. This is the first game in many years, in over a decade perhaps, that I was glued to for hours, and kept coming back to play. This left 2048, my favorite pastime until now, far behind in terms of engagement. I did not read the blog post because it warned of spoilers, so at different stages it took me a while to optimize the numbers to make progress. Loved the game, and will play it again when I have a few hours to spare. Hopefully will be better at it the next time. [1]: Paperclips: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000