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I am as much with you as anyone to fine the tech companies but knowing Italy and how corrupt the bureaucrats are there including from their highest level of gov

I am as much with you as anyone to fine the tech companies but knowing Italy and how corrupt the bureaucrats are there including from their highest level of government to lowest petty officers, I find it a bit hypocritical. OK so Amazon has dominance but over who? Italy has become such a pariah country after last financial crisis I would be surprised if no one even wants to do business there. Italian government of course will oblige, they will happily see their people rot and suffer as they have done over last 20yrs. Ask any of the Italian diaspora, there is not a single thing positive that has happened there in last 10-15yrs. Aside from the Pope.

flexie 5y ago
Pariah country? Ask any large diaspora, and they will readily tell you bad things about their country of origin. That's often why they migrated. I agree that when it comes to IT, Italy doesn't perform like California, New York state, the UK, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries and a few other US or European states or countries. Notice how all those states and countries have English as the official language or a very strong second language. But Italy has lots of other great achievements in industries areas like culture, food, tourism, and in more traditional heavy industries like car manufacturing, trains, etc.
- thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
  And it's not like they're just coasting on their past glory. As an exaple: the country is now criss-crossed by high-speed rail (Frecciarossa), 300km/h, so good that it is out-competing local flights. Most of it built within the last decade
- mmarq 5y ago
  Italy is at best stuck in the 70s, and it's becoming more irrelevant each day. It's a place where starting a company takes 3 months and costs 5000 euros just for the paperwork, where only 20% of the population completes tertiary education and that can't attract foreign (or expatriated) workers even if they are offered massive tax discounts (see "rientro dei cervelli"). Salaries are so low that an Italian engineer close to retirement earns less than a German engineer at their first job after graduation (which should say something about value added produced and the tax system). English has nothing to do with it, and there are enough Italians who can speak English to handle all transactions with foreigners. And the more people talk about "culture, food, tourism", as if Italy were some third world tropical island, the more you know it's getting bad.
  - flexie 5y ago
    Let's not get carried away bashing Italy. Perhaps the best indicator of the standard of a nation is its median life expectancy, which in Italy is 83.2 years, almost 4.5 years more than that of the US. Italy is a first world nation, and a wonderful one in many aspects. The average Italian has a very good life and does not envy the average American. Yes, California, Washington State, and New York easily beat most other places on the planet when it comes to IT, including Italy. 30 years ago, when high-tech meant electronics, Japan was a leader. When high-tech meant mechanics, Germany was one of the leaders. Now, high-tech increasingly means digital, and the language of the digital age is English. Places where close to 100 percent speak English at a high level at a young age have an advantage. I visit Italy almost every year, and it's one of the places in the rich world with most immigrants. They literally drown trying to reach Italian shores. Yes, it's not of the highly skilled type, but they are foreign and they want work. Whereas Italian democracy and public administration leaves something to be desired, Italy didn't have a near coup in 2021, and Italian parties are not busy trying to win elections by preventing voters from other parties from voting. It's whole legal system is not so fragile that half its population cares whether one octogenarian justice dies during what they consider the wrong president. From a startup perspective, Italy is not where it happens right now, but neither is the US Midwest. Italy's population is very old, and it's not a leader in the English speaking digital economy. Let's see what happens.

flexie 5y ago

Pariah country? Ask any large diaspora, and they will readily tell you bad things about their country of origin. That's often why they migrated. I agree that when it comes to IT, Italy doesn't perform like California, New York state, the UK, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries and a few other US or European states or countries. Notice how all those states and countries have English as the official language or a very strong second language. But Italy has lots of other great achievements in industries areas like culture, food, tourism, and in more traditional heavy industries like car manufacturing, trains, etc.

thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
And it's not like they're just coasting on their past glory. As an exaple: the country is now criss-crossed by high-speed rail (Frecciarossa), 300km/h, so good that it is out-competing local flights. Most of it built within the last decade
mmarq 5y ago
Italy is at best stuck in the 70s, and it's becoming more irrelevant each day. It's a place where starting a company takes 3 months and costs 5000 euros just for the paperwork, where only 20% of the population completes tertiary education and that can't attract foreign (or expatriated) workers even if they are offered massive tax discounts (see "rientro dei cervelli"). Salaries are so low that an Italian engineer close to retirement earns less than a German engineer at their first job after graduation (which should say something about value added produced and the tax system). English has nothing to do with it, and there are enough Italians who can speak English to handle all transactions with foreigners. And the more people talk about "culture, food, tourism", as if Italy were some third world tropical island, the more you know it's getting bad.
- flexie 5y ago
  Let's not get carried away bashing Italy. Perhaps the best indicator of the standard of a nation is its median life expectancy, which in Italy is 83.2 years, almost 4.5 years more than that of the US. Italy is a first world nation, and a wonderful one in many aspects. The average Italian has a very good life and does not envy the average American. Yes, California, Washington State, and New York easily beat most other places on the planet when it comes to IT, including Italy. 30 years ago, when high-tech meant electronics, Japan was a leader. When high-tech meant mechanics, Germany was one of the leaders. Now, high-tech increasingly means digital, and the language of the digital age is English. Places where close to 100 percent speak English at a high level at a young age have an advantage. I visit Italy almost every year, and it's one of the places in the rich world with most immigrants. They literally drown trying to reach Italian shores. Yes, it's not of the highly skilled type, but they are foreign and they want work. Whereas Italian democracy and public administration leaves something to be desired, Italy didn't have a near coup in 2021, and Italian parties are not busy trying to win elections by preventing voters from other parties from voting. It's whole legal system is not so fragile that half its population cares whether one octogenarian justice dies during what they consider the wrong president. From a startup perspective, Italy is not where it happens right now, but neither is the US Midwest. Italy's population is very old, and it's not a leader in the English speaking digital economy. Let's see what happens.