4 ms·

Guided by plant voices

44 points by dnetesn 5y ago

pvaldes 5y ago
> This is definitely memory I don't see that. I see a researcher seeing what she wants to see while ignoring more simple explanations for this (well known) behavior. The right verb here is not 'guided', is 'fooled'.
doodlebugging 5y ago
Thanks for this interesting take on potential plant intelligence. I am reminded of some of the things touched on by Carlos Castenada in his books about 40 years ago. And, there is an interesting passage in the biography of Geronimo, a Chiricahua Apache, where he describes using the ability to hide in plain sight by matching the background vibrations of the local plants. In the tale, best as I remember it, he was trying to evade capture by Gen. Crook's troops and they passed within a few feet of himself and another famous Apache named Fun or Naiche, or potentially someone else. I don't remember exactly but the Apache were frequently on the run during the last years before surrender to Gen Crook. (It could also have been Gen. Miles later) Anyway, the Apache believed that plants emitted vibrations in specific frequencies and that matching those frequencies allowed a kind of invisibility mask such that one only needed to stand motionless as a plant to blend in if they could match the bandwidth of the local plants. Pretty fascinating stuff and if true it would explain many other frontier experiences where normally alert people had items, in one famous case including a horse that the owner was holding by the reins at the time, stolen from their grasp. The natural world is at times a strange and fascinating place. Many things happen all the time that have never been adequately studied or documented by western science yet which are known by the locals from regular casual encounters. I would love to see additional work identifying how plants interact with their environments. There is a great video I think on Hulu about fungi that goes into a lot of detail about the importance of fungi to the natural world. Again, thanks for this casual read. It was interesting and will inspire me to re-read Geronimo's book and potentially to dig deeper into this subject than I otherwise would.
- s7r 5y ago
  This is an excellent comment. Can you link to the Geronimo biography?
  - doodlebugging 5y ago
    I was probably mistaken when I said it was his biography. I believe that it was probably his autobiography that he dictated to a white Oklahoma school superintendent while he was held at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. That book is called "Geronimo, My Life" and is available on Amazon and probably in any real, physical book store. The e-book appears to be cheap if you're into that. https://www.amazon.com/Geronimo-My-Life-Native-American/dp/0486443639/ https://www.amazon.com/Geronimo-My-Life-Native-American/dp/0... Since Geronimo was not an Apache chief, he was a medicine man, the story that he tells touches on the spiritual parts of his experience as much as on the trials that he faced as he moved through his life. It is an excellent book and from a unique viewpoint. I highly recommend it.
- VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
  Do you have any books you’ve run across since then? I just finished reading “The Art of Dreaming” and I’m interested in a more philosophical (perhaps less fantastical) treatise on Castañedism.
  - doodlebugging 5y ago
    I haven't read anything recently on this subject. I read most of his books years ago as they were published. Castaneda's works always left me feeling curious about how everything was put together in the universe and how it was all supposed to work. I am a geophysicist by training so I have a good exposure to science - enough to know that there is a lot more to learn. I haven't delved deeply into any lucid dreaming or similar subject matter. I wish I could be more help.
bronlund 5y ago
Nice to see that science is starting to catch up :D
trhway 5y ago
>What you’re saying is very controversial among scientists. The common criticism of your views is that an organism needs a brain or at least a nervous system to be able to learn or remember. as we know to do computing, including storage, anything can be used, no specific need for nervous system/brain.
anotheryou 5y ago
I'd love to hear about the control in the mimosa drop test. Did they still behave the same when they just touched them? Or did they just lower their sensitivity by a lot, which can easily be implemented chemically?
boomboomsubban 5y ago
Wow. Interesting description of experimental data from plants suddenly turned into "I saw a guy in my dream, flew to Peru to meet them, and they enabled me to talk with a plant."
- temp0826 5y ago
  I'm a bit biased on this one (worked at a Shipibo ayahuasca/dieta retreat for a year), but that description is very apt. Many master plants work through dreams, not just ceremonies.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
https://archive.md/l95Bt https://archive.md/l95Bt
Optimal_Persona 5y ago
It's been a while since I read their bios, but Luther Burbank, George Washington Carver, and Rudolf Steiner all claimed their astonishing success as plant breeders came from respectful communication with plant and nature spirits.
ncmncm 5y ago
I just ordered her book.

44 points by dnetesn 5y ago

> This is definitely memory I don't see that. I see a researcher seeing what she wants to see while ignoring more simple explanations for this (well known) behavior. The right verb here is not 'guided', is 'fooled'.

doodlebugging 5y ago

Thanks for this interesting take on potential plant intelligence. I am reminded of some of the things touched on by Carlos Castenada in his books about 40 years ago. And, there is an interesting passage in the biography of Geronimo, a Chiricahua Apache, where he describes using the ability to hide in plain sight by matching the background vibrations of the local plants. In the tale, best as I remember it, he was trying to evade capture by Gen. Crook's troops and they passed within a few feet of himself and another famous Apache named Fun or Naiche, or potentially someone else. I don't remember exactly but the Apache were frequently on the run during the last years before surrender to Gen Crook. (It could also have been Gen. Miles later) Anyway, the Apache believed that plants emitted vibrations in specific frequencies and that matching those frequencies allowed a kind of invisibility mask such that one only needed to stand motionless as a plant to blend in if they could match the bandwidth of the local plants. Pretty fascinating stuff and if true it would explain many other frontier experiences where normally alert people had items, in one famous case including a horse that the owner was holding by the reins at the time, stolen from their grasp. The natural world is at times a strange and fascinating place. Many things happen all the time that have never been adequately studied or documented by western science yet which are known by the locals from regular casual encounters. I would love to see additional work identifying how plants interact with their environments. There is a great video I think on Hulu about fungi that goes into a lot of detail about the importance of fungi to the natural world. Again, thanks for this casual read. It was interesting and will inspire me to re-read Geronimo's book and potentially to dig deeper into this subject than I otherwise would.

s7r 5y ago
This is an excellent comment. Can you link to the Geronimo biography?
- doodlebugging 5y ago
  I was probably mistaken when I said it was his biography. I believe that it was probably his autobiography that he dictated to a white Oklahoma school superintendent while he was held at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. That book is called "Geronimo, My Life" and is available on Amazon and probably in any real, physical book store. The e-book appears to be cheap if you're into that. https://www.amazon.com/Geronimo-My-Life-Native-American/dp/0486443639/ https://www.amazon.com/Geronimo-My-Life-Native-American/dp/0... Since Geronimo was not an Apache chief, he was a medicine man, the story that he tells touches on the spiritual parts of his experience as much as on the trials that he faced as he moved through his life. It is an excellent book and from a unique viewpoint. I highly recommend it.
VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
Do you have any books you’ve run across since then? I just finished reading “The Art of Dreaming” and I’m interested in a more philosophical (perhaps less fantastical) treatise on Castañedism.
- doodlebugging 5y ago
  I haven't read anything recently on this subject. I read most of his books years ago as they were published. Castaneda's works always left me feeling curious about how everything was put together in the universe and how it was all supposed to work. I am a geophysicist by training so I have a good exposure to science - enough to know that there is a lot more to learn. I haven't delved deeply into any lucid dreaming or similar subject matter. I wish I could be more help.

bronlund 5y ago

Nice to see that science is starting to catch up :D

trhway 5y ago

>What you’re saying is very controversial among scientists. The common criticism of your views is that an organism needs a brain or at least a nervous system to be able to learn or remember. as we know to do computing, including storage, anything can be used, no specific need for nervous system/brain.

anotheryou 5y ago

I'd love to hear about the control in the mimosa drop test. Did they still behave the same when they just touched them? Or did they just lower their sensitivity by a lot, which can easily be implemented chemically?

boomboomsubban 5y ago

Wow. Interesting description of experimental data from plants suddenly turned into "I saw a guy in my dream, flew to Peru to meet them, and they enabled me to talk with a plant."

temp0826 5y ago
I'm a bit biased on this one (worked at a Shipibo ayahuasca/dieta retreat for a year), but that description is very apt. Many master plants work through dreams, not just ceremonies.

forgotmypw17 5y ago

https://archive.md/l95Bt https://archive.md/l95Bt

Optimal_Persona 5y ago

It's been a while since I read their bios, but Luther Burbank, George Washington Carver, and Rudolf Steiner all claimed their astonishing success as plant breeders came from respectful communication with plant and nature spirits.

ncmncm 5y ago

I just ordered her book.