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oh boy. you don't know about high taxing. "sin goods" is what its called and the governments do their best to tax the shit out of it. what happens? nothing. peo

oh boy. you don't know about high taxing. "sin goods" is what its called and the governments do their best to tax the shit out of it. what happens? nothing. people continue to beg borrow and steal to get it. government only benefits from higher tax collection rather than a reduction. https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/gst-rate-cess-tobacco-cigarettes/ https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/gst-rate-cess-tobacco-cig... read this. the tax rate on tobacco products in india is 28%+204%. so, the costing is , $100+$28+$204= $332. has that stopped or even lowered the consumption of tobacco products in india? absolutely not. its not about authoritarianism when it comes to such issues. alcohol is banned in many countries across the world. "muslims" are most of them. do they have to enforce drunk driving ban or sale of liquor to minors or is there alcoholic epidemic in those countries? do people get wasted on the streets ? they might have other problems but not alcohol is not one of them. i personally want this law to succeed because while i do not smoke, people i know do and i have seen teens get "attracted" to this because "oh i have depression. lets smoke", those stuff. there will be consequences but if i read it correctly, its not about people who are current addicts but future expected ones. they "don't" know what cigarettes are or what they do. if done properly, these people will not grow up to find their corner shop selling tobacco and in some years, many people will not see smoking a cigarette as "normal" which it currently is.

refurb 5y ago
Jesus. The point of the tax is not only to discourage but also offset the costs to society. If you think making mind altering substances illegal works let me introduce the “War on Drugs” which has been a complete failure.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  the problem is current addicts are difficult to get off from their addiction. that is why "war on drugs" failed imo. if you prevent new users, you already win because they wont "desire" such stuff in the first place. well, that is my understanding at least.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Humans have been altering their consciousness for thousands of years. It’s just the intoxicant that’s socially acceptable had changed. It’s like trying to outlaw sex. You’re fighting evolution.
    - nautilius 5y ago
      Could you elaborate why you think failing to take drugs will lead to extinction of the human species within a generation (as we would see without sex)? Why would there be an evolutionary pressure towards taking drugs?
      - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
        for example. there are around 1.6 billion people who call themselves muslims and they don't touch alcohol and haven't done so for around 1500 years. is that "fighting evolution" ? muslims have grown to not like alcohol, peer pressure, religion and what not. the result? people don't sneak out and have a swig. its just understood that no alcohol means no alcohol. i am assuming that is the long term goals of new zealand
        nautilius 5y ago
        Did you even read my comment?
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Let’s stop telling people about drugs and the problem will solve itself.
viraptor 5y ago
> or even lowered the consumption of tobacco products in india? absolutely not. Ok, I think we'll need a quote for that. Various sources indicate falling percentage of smokers in recent years.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  https://cleartax.in/s/impact-of-gst-rate-on-the-tobacco-industry/ https://cleartax.in/s/impact-of-gst-rate-on-the-tobacco-indu... "Impact on the tobacco industry is going to be largely neutral since the 5% cess declared by the Indian government was less than the expected rate by the tobacco industry. There will be an increase in the expense of smokers due to the rise in the price of a cigarette in the initial period. Although, it is expected that the tobacco industry, irrespective of the tax rate, would have a neutral effect due to the implementation of GST." https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/low-tobacco-tax-poor-health/article37904046.ece https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/low-tobacco-tax-poor-... "The lack of tax increases in post-GST years might mean that some current smokers smoke more now and some non-smokers have started smoking. This could potentially lead to a reversal of the declining trend in prevalence. This might jeopardise India’s commitment to achieving 30% tobacco use prevalence reduction by 2025 as envisaged in the National Health Policy of 2017 by the Government of India." https://www.caclubindia.com/articles/taxation-and-impact-of-gst-on-cigarette-industry-31931.asp https://www.caclubindia.com/articles/taxation-and-impact-of-... this one has more meat into it.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    I don't think any of those really mention the number of smokers. They discuss the impact on the tobacco industry, which can make up the income in price difference on top of the lower-than-expected tax. The second article says only that not raising the tax higher means some people decided they're ok with the cost. But neither one really shows that the prevalence of smokers pre- and post-tax hasn't changed. In terms of numbers I can only find the 2016-2017 GATS numbers of 28.6% users, 10.7% smokers.

refurb 5y ago

Jesus. The point of the tax is not only to discourage but also offset the costs to society. If you think making mind altering substances illegal works let me introduce the “War on Drugs” which has been a complete failure.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
the problem is current addicts are difficult to get off from their addiction. that is why "war on drugs" failed imo. if you prevent new users, you already win because they wont "desire" such stuff in the first place. well, that is my understanding at least.
- refurb 5y ago
  Humans have been altering their consciousness for thousands of years. It’s just the intoxicant that’s socially acceptable had changed. It’s like trying to outlaw sex. You’re fighting evolution.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    Could you elaborate why you think failing to take drugs will lead to extinction of the human species within a generation (as we would see without sex)? Why would there be an evolutionary pressure towards taking drugs?
    - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
      for example. there are around 1.6 billion people who call themselves muslims and they don't touch alcohol and haven't done so for around 1500 years. is that "fighting evolution" ? muslims have grown to not like alcohol, peer pressure, religion and what not. the result? people don't sneak out and have a swig. its just understood that no alcohol means no alcohol. i am assuming that is the long term goals of new zealand
      - nautilius 5y ago
        Did you even read my comment?
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Let’s stop telling people about drugs and the problem will solve itself.

viraptor 5y ago

> or even lowered the consumption of tobacco products in india? absolutely not. Ok, I think we'll need a quote for that. Various sources indicate falling percentage of smokers in recent years.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
https://cleartax.in/s/impact-of-gst-rate-on-the-tobacco-industry/ https://cleartax.in/s/impact-of-gst-rate-on-the-tobacco-indu... "Impact on the tobacco industry is going to be largely neutral since the 5% cess declared by the Indian government was less than the expected rate by the tobacco industry. There will be an increase in the expense of smokers due to the rise in the price of a cigarette in the initial period. Although, it is expected that the tobacco industry, irrespective of the tax rate, would have a neutral effect due to the implementation of GST." https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/low-tobacco-tax-poor-health/article37904046.ece https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/low-tobacco-tax-poor-... "The lack of tax increases in post-GST years might mean that some current smokers smoke more now and some non-smokers have started smoking. This could potentially lead to a reversal of the declining trend in prevalence. This might jeopardise India’s commitment to achieving 30% tobacco use prevalence reduction by 2025 as envisaged in the National Health Policy of 2017 by the Government of India." https://www.caclubindia.com/articles/taxation-and-impact-of-gst-on-cigarette-industry-31931.asp https://www.caclubindia.com/articles/taxation-and-impact-of-... this one has more meat into it.
- viraptor 5y ago
  I don't think any of those really mention the number of smokers. They discuss the impact on the tobacco industry, which can make up the income in price difference on top of the lower-than-expected tax. The second article says only that not raising the tax higher means some people decided they're ok with the cost. But neither one really shows that the prevalence of smokers pre- and post-tax hasn't changed. In terms of numbers I can only find the 2016-2017 GATS numbers of 28.6% users, 10.7% smokers.