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Why raise hell about this? There is an issue in Android/Teams/inbetween, a user reported the issue and all involved parties acknowledged the issue and are "heav

Why raise hell about this? There is an issue in Android/Teams/inbetween, a user reported the issue and all involved parties acknowledged the issue and are "heavily prioritizing" fixing the issue. What would filing a complaint improve to this process?

pdpi 5y ago
“All parties acknowledged and prioritising” is a fine state of affairs for a “file sync ate my data” bug, but you don’t get to sweep a potential criminal issue under the rug like that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
OneLeggedCat 5y ago
"heavily prioritizing" here means Google doesn't currently plan to fix it until some date in January, from what I read in their response to the Reddit post.
- cesarb 5y ago
  > "heavily prioritizing" here means Google doesn't currently plan to fix it until some date in January Like Microsoft with Windows, Google releases their security fixes for Android monthly. And January 4 is obviously the date for the next one (it goes out at the beginning of each month, and AFAIK the December one has already gone out). So the fix (which might even be ready already) is going to be released on the first opportunity.
  - rswail 5y ago
    This is not a "security" fix. This is a health and safety fix. This is at the same time as we head into a) the holiday season in much of the world, b) winter in much of the world, c) an ongoing pandemic that is dealing with the spread of a new variant and the roll out of not only initial vaccines but also boosters. Having emergency calls not go through because of a bug needs to be fixed immediately, not subject to some update cycle.
    - cesarb 5y ago
      From what I understood, it will be fixed immediately, through an update to Microsoft Teams. The underlying cause (which can be considered a security fix, since it should not be possible for a non-privileged application to interfere with that mechanism) will be fixed by the monthly Android security update.
    - bell-cot 5y ago
      If the issue is health & safety, and the dangerous failure mode is pretty rare - then how much time should be spent in validation, testing, etc. - to make sure the fix you rush out the door ASAP does not actually make things worse?
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
Disincentivize similar behavior in the future.
- leokennis 5y ago
  Which is? Unless there is malicious intent, I do not really see the added benefit of a lawsuit or complaint to the regulator.
  - np- 5y ago
    To prevent this from happening again. To force their hand to ensure that their incentive structure changes to test and verify emergency calls _first_ regardless of how long it takes even if it slows revenue generation before releasing their products to production. To hold them accountable to society for brazenly ignoring one of our major rules while still selling products pulling in a ton of cash. Lots of reasons to raise an official complaint. So they don’t just get to walk away with an “oops my bad”, much like many of us wouldn’t be able to if we messed up big time. It’s not like this is some random Joe shop that missed a small feature. This is Google and Microsoft, two of the biggest tech companies out there, making billions while not even caring to follow society’s rules (move fast and break things right? All in the name of scaled super fast profit)
    - nikanj 5y ago
      So every app vendor now needs to make a 911 call as part of their CI process? I don't think 911 call centers are very happy about this.
      - np- 5y ago
        Every app vendor who sells a phone product in the US? Uh, yes? It’s the law. 911 Call centers literally make testing available for this. And all you really need to test is that you’re making the outbound call properly without shit hitting the fan. What’s the alternative? Just have 911 calls fail every once in a while since everybody is too busy with their feature work to look into it?
messe 5y ago
> Why raise hell about this? Because it should never have gotten to this point. They are lucky that somebody has not already died. > What would filing a complaint improve to this process? It would encourage proper testing, and proper development practices that would prevent such a bug from occurring. Why was the system so poorly designed that Microsoft Teams could cause a hang during a 911 call in the first place?
- nikanj 5y ago
  What kind of testing (and from whom) would have caught this?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
    Google should have built in some mechanism which verifies that the integration from Teams can't prevent calling 911 - either as part of Play Store verification, or as a general test of their system (they delegate to other apps, if these fail or hang the native mechanism should take over).
    - midjji 5y ago
      Or just generally make it impossible to interfere with the calling process. There is zero need for it after all.
      - rjmunro 5y ago
        Having something that can screen calls for spam, something that can stop you accidentally dialling a premium rate number and getting an unexpected large bill, or something that can intercept a call and route it over a cheaper VoiP connection is really useful. It needs to be a carefully managed feature, but it's certainly not "zero need".
acd10j 5y ago
Right now it only one of the bug among thousands of others bugs in their bug tracking system, By raising hell with fcc, After penalty and rapping from fcc Organizations legal department will get involved, they will make sure this gets required attention. Will ensure this is one of the must check/test before shipping product/app.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pdpi 5y ago

“All parties acknowledged and prioritising” is a fine state of affairs for a “file sync ate my data” bug, but you don’t get to sweep a potential criminal issue under the rug like that.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

OneLeggedCat 5y ago

"heavily prioritizing" here means Google doesn't currently plan to fix it until some date in January, from what I read in their response to the Reddit post.

cesarb 5y ago
> "heavily prioritizing" here means Google doesn't currently plan to fix it until some date in January Like Microsoft with Windows, Google releases their security fixes for Android monthly. And January 4 is obviously the date for the next one (it goes out at the beginning of each month, and AFAIK the December one has already gone out). So the fix (which might even be ready already) is going to be released on the first opportunity.
- rswail 5y ago
  This is not a "security" fix. This is a health and safety fix. This is at the same time as we head into a) the holiday season in much of the world, b) winter in much of the world, c) an ongoing pandemic that is dealing with the spread of a new variant and the roll out of not only initial vaccines but also boosters. Having emergency calls not go through because of a bug needs to be fixed immediately, not subject to some update cycle.
  - cesarb 5y ago
    From what I understood, it will be fixed immediately, through an update to Microsoft Teams. The underlying cause (which can be considered a security fix, since it should not be possible for a non-privileged application to interfere with that mechanism) will be fixed by the monthly Android security update.
  - bell-cot 5y ago
    If the issue is health & safety, and the dangerous failure mode is pretty rare - then how much time should be spent in validation, testing, etc. - to make sure the fix you rush out the door ASAP does not actually make things worse?

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

Disincentivize similar behavior in the future.

leokennis 5y ago
Which is? Unless there is malicious intent, I do not really see the added benefit of a lawsuit or complaint to the regulator.
- np- 5y ago
  To prevent this from happening again. To force their hand to ensure that their incentive structure changes to test and verify emergency calls _first_ regardless of how long it takes even if it slows revenue generation before releasing their products to production. To hold them accountable to society for brazenly ignoring one of our major rules while still selling products pulling in a ton of cash. Lots of reasons to raise an official complaint. So they don’t just get to walk away with an “oops my bad”, much like many of us wouldn’t be able to if we messed up big time. It’s not like this is some random Joe shop that missed a small feature. This is Google and Microsoft, two of the biggest tech companies out there, making billions while not even caring to follow society’s rules (move fast and break things right? All in the name of scaled super fast profit)
  - nikanj 5y ago
    So every app vendor now needs to make a 911 call as part of their CI process? I don't think 911 call centers are very happy about this.
    - np- 5y ago
      Every app vendor who sells a phone product in the US? Uh, yes? It’s the law. 911 Call centers literally make testing available for this. And all you really need to test is that you’re making the outbound call properly without shit hitting the fan. What’s the alternative? Just have 911 calls fail every once in a while since everybody is too busy with their feature work to look into it?

messe 5y ago

> Why raise hell about this? Because it should never have gotten to this point. They are lucky that somebody has not already died. > What would filing a complaint improve to this process? It would encourage proper testing, and proper development practices that would prevent such a bug from occurring. Why was the system so poorly designed that Microsoft Teams could cause a hang during a 911 call in the first place?

nikanj 5y ago
What kind of testing (and from whom) would have caught this?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  Google should have built in some mechanism which verifies that the integration from Teams can't prevent calling 911 - either as part of Play Store verification, or as a general test of their system (they delegate to other apps, if these fail or hang the native mechanism should take over).
  - midjji 5y ago
    Or just generally make it impossible to interfere with the calling process. There is zero need for it after all.
    - rjmunro 5y ago
      Having something that can screen calls for spam, something that can stop you accidentally dialling a premium rate number and getting an unexpected large bill, or something that can intercept a call and route it over a cheaper VoiP connection is really useful. It needs to be a carefully managed feature, but it's certainly not "zero need".

acd10j 5y ago

Right now it only one of the bug among thousands of others bugs in their bug tracking system, By raising hell with fcc, After penalty and rapping from fcc Organizations legal department will get involved, they will make sure this gets required attention. Will ensure this is one of the must check/test before shipping product/app.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]