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A billion is nothing for Amazon. They'll barely feel it. It's not even a slap on the wrist - more like waving an index finger snd saying "behave or else".

by kubb 5y ago

imiric 5y ago
And yet it's a substantial amount for the Italian government. I'm sure it will be put to good use... In all seriousness, is it documented anywhere where these fines end up and who exactly benefits from them?
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  As a general rule, fines always go back to the general budget in the EU. They are not earmarked and don't directly benefit anyone.
  - gpderetta 5y ago
    AFAICT this fine was levied by the Italian government, not the EU.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      In the countries that are members of the EU, we don't have US-like 'civil forfeiture' where police just grabs some cash for themselves
    - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
      Italy is an EU member. As a general rule in the EU, fines levied by members governments go back to the general budget of said government.
- rpadovani 5y ago
  > And yet it's a substantial amount for the Italian government. Wut? Italy tax revenue last year has been 708B euros, this is < 0.2% of just that https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVITA https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVITA
sz4kerto 5y ago
This is not true. A billion hurts - it’s many people’s bonuses, etc. Amazon is all about margins, they’re fighting teeth and nails for saving money wherever they can. Their efficiency comes from the fact that everything matters to them, and a billion absolutely does matter.
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  Amazon regularly makes over $90B a quarter now[0][1]. ~1% or lower is not much, especially considering that this abuse of market domination secured them more revenue than it lost. Hard to quantify (well the authorities gave it a shot) how much the abuse garnered them, but governments tend to under-penalize rather than over-penalize corporations. [0]: https://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/revenues https://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/revenues [1]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/revenu...
  - mrjangles 5y ago
    That's a plot of revenue, not income.
    - hardwaresofton 5y ago
      [EDIT] did it again here -- revenue, not income. I was very careful to avoid writing income for that very reason, I did not say that it was their income -- I said they "made" that much, which they did, they made that much revenue. It's in the link itself as well. 1% of quarterly revenue is still not a lot to pay. Income can also be a misleading indicator to watch -- if you're going to make a royalty deal for example you'd better do it on revenue, not income.
      - newswasboring 5y ago
        > 1% of quarterly income is still not a lot to pay It is when your net margin is in single digits[1] (5% as of sept 2021, but has been as low as 1%). [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/profit...
kortilla 5y ago
That’s more revenue than they pull in from Italy in an entire year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/881406/amazon-revenue-by-business-in-italy https://www.statista.com/statistics/881406/amazon-revenue-by... They took a massive loss on that fine so it’s way more than a finger wave. Please put some effort into justifying your statements.
- john37386 5y ago
  Amazon is not profitable. AWS is.
  - konschubert 5y ago
    Parent is talking about revenue not earnings.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - ausudhz 5y ago
    Amazon is profitable as well, very low margin compared to AWS but still profitable. If you see the 2020 numbers Amazon has made 21.33B (on 386B revenue). AWS business in 2020 has generated 13.5 of that (with a 45B revenue)
- mrzool 5y ago
  That's paywalled... do you mind posting the number here?
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  [EDIT] - "profits" -> revenue. Wrote the same comment twice and only made the mistake here. Amazon consistently makes over 90B in revenues quarterly. Fining more than revenue in Italy is one thing and may look bad on paper if you take an italy-centric view but 1B is ~1% of Amazon's quarterly revenue. Amazon is a massive company and Italy could be a loss-leader for years maybe even decades and not make a dent. All the while Italian businesses suffer and wealth compounds somewhere else. There's also no absolute way to measure the market share/billions (and in which related markets) they've captured by the abuse they've perpetrated. Generally governments fine too little and too late, not too much and too early.

A billion is nothing for Amazon. They'll barely feel it. It's not even a slap on the wrist - more like waving an index finger snd saying "behave or else".

by kubb 5y ago

A billion is nothing for Amazon. They'll barely feel it. It's not even a slap on the wrist - more like waving an index finger snd saying "behave or else".

imiric 5y ago

And yet it's a substantial amount for the Italian government. I'm sure it will be put to good use... In all seriousness, is it documented anywhere where these fines end up and who exactly benefits from them?

WastingMyTime89 5y ago
As a general rule, fines always go back to the general budget in the EU. They are not earmarked and don't directly benefit anyone.
- gpderetta 5y ago
  AFAICT this fine was levied by the Italian government, not the EU.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    In the countries that are members of the EU, we don't have US-like 'civil forfeiture' where police just grabs some cash for themselves
  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    Italy is an EU member. As a general rule in the EU, fines levied by members governments go back to the general budget of said government.
rpadovani 5y ago
> And yet it's a substantial amount for the Italian government. Wut? Italy tax revenue last year has been 708B euros, this is < 0.2% of just that https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVITA https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVITA

sz4kerto 5y ago

This is not true. A billion hurts - it’s many people’s bonuses, etc. Amazon is all about margins, they’re fighting teeth and nails for saving money wherever they can. Their efficiency comes from the fact that everything matters to them, and a billion absolutely does matter.

hardwaresofton 5y ago
Amazon regularly makes over $90B a quarter now[0][1]. ~1% or lower is not much, especially considering that this abuse of market domination secured them more revenue than it lost. Hard to quantify (well the authorities gave it a shot) how much the abuse garnered them, but governments tend to under-penalize rather than over-penalize corporations. [0]: https://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/revenues https://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/revenues [1]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/revenu...
- mrjangles 5y ago
  That's a plot of revenue, not income.
  - hardwaresofton 5y ago
    [EDIT] did it again here -- revenue, not income. I was very careful to avoid writing income for that very reason, I did not say that it was their income -- I said they "made" that much, which they did, they made that much revenue. It's in the link itself as well. 1% of quarterly revenue is still not a lot to pay. Income can also be a misleading indicator to watch -- if you're going to make a royalty deal for example you'd better do it on revenue, not income.
    - newswasboring 5y ago
      > 1% of quarterly income is still not a lot to pay It is when your net margin is in single digits[1] (5% as of sept 2021, but has been as low as 1%). [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/profit...

kortilla 5y ago

That’s more revenue than they pull in from Italy in an entire year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/881406/amazon-revenue-by-business-in-italy https://www.statista.com/statistics/881406/amazon-revenue-by... They took a massive loss on that fine so it’s way more than a finger wave. Please put some effort into justifying your statements.

john37386 5y ago
Amazon is not profitable. AWS is.
- konschubert 5y ago
  Parent is talking about revenue not earnings.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ausudhz 5y ago
  Amazon is profitable as well, very low margin compared to AWS but still profitable. If you see the 2020 numbers Amazon has made 21.33B (on 386B revenue). AWS business in 2020 has generated 13.5 of that (with a 45B revenue)
mrzool 5y ago
That's paywalled... do you mind posting the number here?
hardwaresofton 5y ago
[EDIT] - "profits" -> revenue. Wrote the same comment twice and only made the mistake here. Amazon consistently makes over 90B in revenues quarterly. Fining more than revenue in Italy is one thing and may look bad on paper if you take an italy-centric view but 1B is ~1% of Amazon's quarterly revenue. Amazon is a massive company and Italy could be a loss-leader for years maybe even decades and not make a dent. All the while Italian businesses suffer and wealth compounds somewhere else. There's also no absolute way to measure the market share/billions (and in which related markets) they've captured by the abuse they've perpetrated. Generally governments fine too little and too late, not too much and too early.