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Microsoft might argue that "Teams" is not a "multi-line telephone system". That probably wouldn't go far with a jury. The clear intent of the law is that if you

Microsoft might argue that "Teams" is not a "multi-line telephone system". That probably wouldn't go far with a jury. The clear intent of the law is that if you interpose something between a phone handset and the 911 network, it has to pass through 911 calls. Google may blame Microsoft but there is no way an app should be able to disable 911 calling on a phone. This means that other apps could disable 911 intentionally. This is Google's problem to fix. A phone OS needs to guarantee certain things and 911 is one of them.

Forgeties79 5y ago
The problem is Google already does virtually nothing to manage/vet the apps on their store. It’s basically a free-for-all.
raverbashing 5y ago
Yes. And other countries emergency numbers as well. The perils of treating phone as "just another app", lack of testing, etc.
- jeltz 5y ago
  I think 112 must work everywhere according to some standard (the GSM standard?).
  - martopix 5y ago
    GSM standard + standard in the EU also for landlines.
- nly 5y ago
  In many other countries 911 works as well, simply because it's pervasive across TV.
  - plebianRube 5y ago
    I've would have dialed: 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 I thought it had been changed for ages.
    - artwr 5y ago
      Thank you for reminding me of the IT crowd. Now I have the music in my head
    - hpoe 5y ago
      An email also works in some cases.
      - mlukaszek 5y ago
        I thought an email only works if there is a fire, exclamation mark, fire, exclamation mark...
midjji 5y ago
I wonder if this is a result of various ways microsoft software is trying to force users to login to a microsoft account. If so the problem will be systemic as the microsoft programmers will be in an ongoing battle to disable as much unrelated stuff as possible.
- llampx 5y ago
  Can you use MS Teams without a MS account?
  - tjoff 5y ago
    Every once in a blue moon you get logged out and need to log in again. Teams seem to cache some stuff and not others so in that case behavior isn't exactly intuitive. I am not the least surprised that it trigger crashes.
    - organsnyder 5y ago
      Or if your account is deleted (such as when you leave a company), I could see this happening.
  - cure 5y ago
    Not last time I tried. That flow (i.e. you are not part of/logged into an institutional Teams account) is completely broken. Teams makes you go create a free Microsoft account, which then doesn't work to log into Teams.
    - midjji 5y ago
      Its almost like microsoft utterly fails to understand why zoom dominated... Its strange how many companies believe their own lies about anything requiring an explicit account being a good idea...
  - ddingus 5y ago
    On Mobile, I do it with a browser "Show Desktop Version" and click on the "Continue on this browser" option. This is only an option when one doesn't need to fully participate in Teams, which is the case for me. I do not currently use a Microsoft account for anything. I have one, and once in a while, I log in with it for some reason or other. Everything else is a Office 365 account tied to an email provided by the people funding that access. For me personally, using OSS gets the job done for all my computing needs otherwise.
dessant 5y ago
Half of Google's response is corporate speak that plays down the issue. The priority here should have been to explain and disseminate the workaround, not to start with several sentences of establishing that the blame must be shared. https://web.archive.org/web/20211209094433/https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/r4xz1f/pixel_prevented_me_from_calling_911/hnrvsr1/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211209094433/https://www.reddi... https://archive.vn/20211209094437/https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/r4xz1f/pixel_prevented_me_from_calling_911/hnrvsr1/ https://archive.vn/20211209094437/https://www.reddit.com/r/G... > We will also be providing an Android platform update to the Android ecosystem on January 4. They postpone the fix to the next regular patch release, while fully knowing that other apps could trigger the same bug, including malware. This is criminal negligence. Google also has the power to immediately disable Microsoft Teams on most Android devices, until the fix is rolled out. They are taking down apps for dubious reasons all the time. But when a popular app triggers a life-threatening bug, then let's wait for them to issue an update, here are some tricks to avoid the bug, don't forget to tell grandma.
- esquivalience 5y ago
  Disagree. They provided context allowing people to understand the reason for what would otherwise seem a bizarre set of steps that seem to cure the problem in the meantime. It's clear and direct.
  - dessant 5y ago
    Context can be provided without all the filler expressions that play down the issue as the sentences progress. By the time they arrive to the workaround, this is how they continue: > Out of an abundance of caution, in the meantime, we suggest Does that suggest urgency to you? > Because this issue impacts emergency calling, both Google and Microsoft are heavily prioritizing the issue, and we expect a Microsoft Teams app update to be rolled out soon – as always we suggest users keep an eye out for app updates to ensure they are running the latest version. We will also be providing an Android platform update to the Android ecosystem on January 4. I believe heavy prioritization shouldn't involve planning to wait an entire month to issue an Android update.
lr1970 5y ago
> Google may blame Microsoft but there is no way an app should be able to disable 911 calling on a phone. Google runs a battery of automated tests on any app before admitting it to the Play Store. A part of this testing should be simulated 911 calls. Failing to do so could open Google to liability through negligence.
- gruez 5y ago
  It's obvious now that such a test should exist, but hindsight is 20/20. Does the law actually require that?
  - lr1970 5y ago
    The law mandates the functionality. How to enable and test this functionality is the responsibility of the carrier. Whether the compliance is achieved by testing third-party apps or via an in-house bypass implementation is immaterial. On the other hand, assigning liability for non-compliance is tricky and for Google the jury is still out (pan intended).
nvarsj 5y ago
Android is a general purpose embedded OS, it's not just used on devices with cell radios. It doesn't manage the BP (cell phone processor) either afaik. For example, a voip android desk phone - it relies on voip to make calls. Android is agnostic about it and allows third party software to handle underlying calls, whether it is Qualcomm/Samsung/etc software for cell calls or Microsoft Teams for VOIP. There isn't a straightforward approach here for Android. It's not like iOS where Apple owns the entire software stack, including modem software.
- bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
  Wouldn’t the straightforward approach just to be to test 911 connections on devices with telephony available?
tacobelllover99 5y ago
thank you captain obvious

Forgeties79 5y ago

The problem is Google already does virtually nothing to manage/vet the apps on their store. It’s basically a free-for-all.

raverbashing 5y ago

Yes. And other countries emergency numbers as well. The perils of treating phone as "just another app", lack of testing, etc.

jeltz 5y ago
I think 112 must work everywhere according to some standard (the GSM standard?).
- martopix 5y ago
  GSM standard + standard in the EU also for landlines.
nly 5y ago
In many other countries 911 works as well, simply because it's pervasive across TV.
- plebianRube 5y ago
  I've would have dialed: 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 I thought it had been changed for ages.
  - artwr 5y ago
    Thank you for reminding me of the IT crowd. Now I have the music in my head
  - hpoe 5y ago
    An email also works in some cases.
    - mlukaszek 5y ago
      I thought an email only works if there is a fire, exclamation mark, fire, exclamation mark...

midjji 5y ago

I wonder if this is a result of various ways microsoft software is trying to force users to login to a microsoft account. If so the problem will be systemic as the microsoft programmers will be in an ongoing battle to disable as much unrelated stuff as possible.

llampx 5y ago
Can you use MS Teams without a MS account?
- tjoff 5y ago
  Every once in a blue moon you get logged out and need to log in again. Teams seem to cache some stuff and not others so in that case behavior isn't exactly intuitive. I am not the least surprised that it trigger crashes.
  - organsnyder 5y ago
    Or if your account is deleted (such as when you leave a company), I could see this happening.
- cure 5y ago
  Not last time I tried. That flow (i.e. you are not part of/logged into an institutional Teams account) is completely broken. Teams makes you go create a free Microsoft account, which then doesn't work to log into Teams.
  - midjji 5y ago
    Its almost like microsoft utterly fails to understand why zoom dominated... Its strange how many companies believe their own lies about anything requiring an explicit account being a good idea...
- ddingus 5y ago
  On Mobile, I do it with a browser "Show Desktop Version" and click on the "Continue on this browser" option. This is only an option when one doesn't need to fully participate in Teams, which is the case for me. I do not currently use a Microsoft account for anything. I have one, and once in a while, I log in with it for some reason or other. Everything else is a Office 365 account tied to an email provided by the people funding that access. For me personally, using OSS gets the job done for all my computing needs otherwise.

dessant 5y ago

Half of Google's response is corporate speak that plays down the issue. The priority here should have been to explain and disseminate the workaround, not to start with several sentences of establishing that the blame must be shared. https://web.archive.org/web/20211209094433/https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/r4xz1f/pixel_prevented_me_from_calling_911/hnrvsr1/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211209094433/https://www.reddi... https://archive.vn/20211209094437/https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/r4xz1f/pixel_prevented_me_from_calling_911/hnrvsr1/ https://archive.vn/20211209094437/https://www.reddit.com/r/G... > We will also be providing an Android platform update to the Android ecosystem on January 4. They postpone the fix to the next regular patch release, while fully knowing that other apps could trigger the same bug, including malware. This is criminal negligence. Google also has the power to immediately disable Microsoft Teams on most Android devices, until the fix is rolled out. They are taking down apps for dubious reasons all the time. But when a popular app triggers a life-threatening bug, then let's wait for them to issue an update, here are some tricks to avoid the bug, don't forget to tell grandma.

esquivalience 5y ago
Disagree. They provided context allowing people to understand the reason for what would otherwise seem a bizarre set of steps that seem to cure the problem in the meantime. It's clear and direct.
- dessant 5y ago
  Context can be provided without all the filler expressions that play down the issue as the sentences progress. By the time they arrive to the workaround, this is how they continue: > Out of an abundance of caution, in the meantime, we suggest Does that suggest urgency to you? > Because this issue impacts emergency calling, both Google and Microsoft are heavily prioritizing the issue, and we expect a Microsoft Teams app update to be rolled out soon – as always we suggest users keep an eye out for app updates to ensure they are running the latest version. We will also be providing an Android platform update to the Android ecosystem on January 4. I believe heavy prioritization shouldn't involve planning to wait an entire month to issue an Android update.

lr1970 5y ago

> Google may blame Microsoft but there is no way an app should be able to disable 911 calling on a phone. Google runs a battery of automated tests on any app before admitting it to the Play Store. A part of this testing should be simulated 911 calls. Failing to do so could open Google to liability through negligence.

gruez 5y ago
It's obvious now that such a test should exist, but hindsight is 20/20. Does the law actually require that?
- lr1970 5y ago
  The law mandates the functionality. How to enable and test this functionality is the responsibility of the carrier. Whether the compliance is achieved by testing third-party apps or via an in-house bypass implementation is immaterial. On the other hand, assigning liability for non-compliance is tricky and for Google the jury is still out (pan intended).

nvarsj 5y ago

Android is a general purpose embedded OS, it's not just used on devices with cell radios. It doesn't manage the BP (cell phone processor) either afaik. For example, a voip android desk phone - it relies on voip to make calls. Android is agnostic about it and allows third party software to handle underlying calls, whether it is Qualcomm/Samsung/etc software for cell calls or Microsoft Teams for VOIP. There isn't a straightforward approach here for Android. It's not like iOS where Apple owns the entire software stack, including modem software.

bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
Wouldn’t the straightforward approach just to be to test 911 connections on devices with telephony available?

tacobelllover99 5y ago

thank you captain obvious