4 ms·

Nial Array Language

50 points by xept 5y ago

dang 5y ago
A bit of past discussion: QNial7 Array Language Announcement - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14862405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14862405 - July 2017 (1 comment) The Nial Programming Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9074506 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9074506 - Feb 2015 (9 comments)
kubb 5y ago
I wish there was a language tour, otherwise I don't know what this is.
- xept 5y ago
  There's a Documentation link at the top of the page [1]. I think Nial Introduction [2] is what you'd like to read first. [1] https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/ https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/ [2] https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/intro/index.html https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/intro/index.html
- gozzoo 5y ago
  This is quite strange. It seems they are hiding the syntax on purpose, you need to dig into the documentation until you see a code example.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawaybutwhy 5y ago
    I'd ascribe it to ineptitude rather than malice. Either way, expecting first-time visitors to be patient and understanding enough to go looking for syntax/EBNF unaided is a mistake.
    - boxed 5y ago
      The docs themselves are weirdly written: > The session begins with an assignment of the string ‘hello’ to the variable A. A is the variable; gets is the assign action; the string ‘hello’ ( a list of characters) is the expression. The most egregious part about this rambling mess is that "gets" is not in the example.
      - unwind 5y ago
        It appears in later examples on the same page. I suspect that := was added as syntactic sugar but docs were not updated. It is awesome on the quirkyness-o-meter that they (if I'm right) started with "gets" (which to me does not feel assignment-like) then sugared it into := which is very common, yet kept the name.
        _delirium 5y ago
        The GitHub README gives more context for the somewhat inconsistent state of the docs. It's an open source release of a language that had been a commercial spinoff from academia decades earlier, and now gets only occasional updates from two people as a spare-time project: > The Nial language was developed by Mike Jenkins and Trenchard More in a collaborative research project supported by Queen's University at Kingston and IBM Cambridge Scientific Center from 1979 to 1982. > [...] > Nial Systems limited licensed the interpreter from Queen's University and marketed it widely. Mike Jenkins continued to refine both the language and its implementation. In 2006 Mike released Version 6.3 as an open source project to encourage continued development of Nial. > In 2014 Mike started working with John Gibbons to develop a 64-bit version and to add capabilities that John needed for his work. The decision was made to target the open source for Unix-based platforms and release it on GitHub.
mjburgess 5y ago
The extreme amounts of whitespace and text zoom makes it extremely difficult to get a sense of the language. After going to the intro, then to a chapter, then zooming to 67%... I can almost browse through some code examples and see the language. But even here, each example has extraordinary amounts of whitespace. There needs to be a single page with substantive lines of code, at c. 67% zoom, which shows off simple-to-advanced features in one go.
- moeris 5y ago
  Like most array programming languages, they center on the repl. It's not that the snippets have excess whitespace, it's that they're expressions being evaluated, one after the other. http://learningj.com http://learningj.com is similar. At least with LearningJ, the examples tend to be short because the language is more terse than others. Reading J is more like reading math than a programming language. And so the snippets tend to be smaller. Nial may be similar.
  - mjburgess 5y ago
    I use scala, python, etc. often -- they have terse repl output. EDIT: https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM 100%, 67% zoom, python comparison (similar examples)
- bradrn 5y ago
  I find this comment odd. It looks fine to me: https://imgur.com/5fW1OON https://imgur.com/5fW1OON
  - mjburgess 5y ago
    https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM 100%, 67% zoom, python comparison (similar examples)
account-5 5y ago
I'm planning on attempting to learn an array language. This might be a good starter?
- skruger 5y ago
  Learn APL. Back to the roots. You’ll be pleasantly surprised. https://xpqz.github.io/learnapl https://xpqz.github.io/learnapl
- linspace 5y ago
  It depends on your objectives but for most people it would be better something with support for array programming like numpy, Julia or Matlab since the ecosystem is better. Otherwise I would try J.
- andreypopp 5y ago
  I’m learning BQN while solving AoC puzzles. While this is my first array language and I cannot compare with others I like BQN very much: - excellent documentation - small but excellent community - context free grammar - good text editor support (I’m using neovim) - FUN!
- smartmic 5y ago
  I had started with J and find out about Klong later, a nice niche language. I bought the book to learn about array programming in general and can recommend it: http://t3x.org/klong/book.html http://t3x.org/klong/book.html

50 points by xept 5y ago

dang 5y ago

A bit of past discussion: QNial7 Array Language Announcement - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14862405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14862405 - July 2017 (1 comment) The Nial Programming Language - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9074506 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9074506 - Feb 2015 (9 comments)

kubb 5y ago

I wish there was a language tour, otherwise I don't know what this is.

xept 5y ago
There's a Documentation link at the top of the page [1]. I think Nial Introduction [2] is what you'd like to read first. [1] https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/ https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/ [2] https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/intro/index.html https://www.nial-array-language.org/ndocs/intro/index.html
gozzoo 5y ago
This is quite strange. It seems they are hiding the syntax on purpose, you need to dig into the documentation until you see a code example.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaybutwhy 5y ago
  I'd ascribe it to ineptitude rather than malice. Either way, expecting first-time visitors to be patient and understanding enough to go looking for syntax/EBNF unaided is a mistake.
  - boxed 5y ago
    The docs themselves are weirdly written: > The session begins with an assignment of the string ‘hello’ to the variable A. A is the variable; gets is the assign action; the string ‘hello’ ( a list of characters) is the expression. The most egregious part about this rambling mess is that "gets" is not in the example.
    - unwind 5y ago
      It appears in later examples on the same page. I suspect that := was added as syntactic sugar but docs were not updated. It is awesome on the quirkyness-o-meter that they (if I'm right) started with "gets" (which to me does not feel assignment-like) then sugared it into := which is very common, yet kept the name.
      - _delirium 5y ago
        The GitHub README gives more context for the somewhat inconsistent state of the docs. It's an open source release of a language that had been a commercial spinoff from academia decades earlier, and now gets only occasional updates from two people as a spare-time project: > The Nial language was developed by Mike Jenkins and Trenchard More in a collaborative research project supported by Queen's University at Kingston and IBM Cambridge Scientific Center from 1979 to 1982. > [...] > Nial Systems limited licensed the interpreter from Queen's University and marketed it widely. Mike Jenkins continued to refine both the language and its implementation. In 2006 Mike released Version 6.3 as an open source project to encourage continued development of Nial. > In 2014 Mike started working with John Gibbons to develop a 64-bit version and to add capabilities that John needed for his work. The decision was made to target the open source for Unix-based platforms and release it on GitHub.

mjburgess 5y ago

The extreme amounts of whitespace and text zoom makes it extremely difficult to get a sense of the language. After going to the intro, then to a chapter, then zooming to 67%... I can almost browse through some code examples and see the language. But even here, each example has extraordinary amounts of whitespace. There needs to be a single page with substantive lines of code, at c. 67% zoom, which shows off simple-to-advanced features in one go.

moeris 5y ago
Like most array programming languages, they center on the repl. It's not that the snippets have excess whitespace, it's that they're expressions being evaluated, one after the other. http://learningj.com http://learningj.com is similar. At least with LearningJ, the examples tend to be short because the language is more terse than others. Reading J is more like reading math than a programming language. And so the snippets tend to be smaller. Nial may be similar.
- mjburgess 5y ago
  I use scala, python, etc. often -- they have terse repl output. EDIT: https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM 100%, 67% zoom, python comparison (similar examples)
bradrn 5y ago
I find this comment odd. It looks fine to me: https://imgur.com/5fW1OON https://imgur.com/5fW1OON
- mjburgess 5y ago
  https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM https://imgur.com/a/Qs1ukGM 100%, 67% zoom, python comparison (similar examples)

account-5 5y ago

I'm planning on attempting to learn an array language. This might be a good starter?

skruger 5y ago
Learn APL. Back to the roots. You’ll be pleasantly surprised. https://xpqz.github.io/learnapl https://xpqz.github.io/learnapl
linspace 5y ago
It depends on your objectives but for most people it would be better something with support for array programming like numpy, Julia or Matlab since the ecosystem is better. Otherwise I would try J.
andreypopp 5y ago
I’m learning BQN while solving AoC puzzles. While this is my first array language and I cannot compare with others I like BQN very much: - excellent documentation - small but excellent community - context free grammar - good text editor support (I’m using neovim) - FUN!
smartmic 5y ago
I had started with J and find out about Klong later, a nice niche language. I bought the book to learn about array programming in general and can recommend it: http://t3x.org/klong/book.html http://t3x.org/klong/book.html