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I don't want your dad to get covid either. But every single school child and teacher has access to a vaccine at this point and teachers who feel they are at a s

I don't want your dad to get covid either. But every single school child and teacher has access to a vaccine at this point and teachers who feel they are at a special risk have access to KN95 masks. Instead, everyone has to wear some kind of cloth mask to show that "wearing is caring". We now have almost two years of data to look at. The risk to children is absurdly low.

mlyle 5y ago
> I don't want your dad to get covid either. Welp, students in my classes wearing their masks is a big part of how I'm still able to see my dad and not kill him. > Instead, everyone has to wear some kind of cloth mask to show that "wearing is caring". Because it's one of the most effective measures we have. Research (both observational and based on aerosol modeling) implies that surgical/cloth masks and getting windows open each reduces risk of infection about 4-5x, and they stack on top of each other for a ~20x total reduction. That's enough, with vaccination, to make me comfortable seeing my dad (masked). > The risk to children is absurdly low. About 70k kids hospitalized in the US so far-- so that's not absurdly low. And, again, the risk to children's families and faculty (and faculty families) counts too.
- actfrench 5y ago
  There is a huge risk to kids. My friends Jeremy Howard and Rachel Thomas recently compiled research on this topic. Especially of concern is long-term effects of COVID on children. Rachel says, "research shows we downplay long-term effects of Covid on children" https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1454242957259800578 https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1454242957259800578 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1420981223535517696 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1420981223535517696 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Who knows, right? As the Nature article you cited points out, the research we have now is poorly controlled and hopelessly confounded and pointing in many different directions. My personal belief is that COVID-19 and influenza are probably similar in children. But even that is more risk than people generally realize: a whole lot of permanent impact happens from influenza in children, but we just accept it and shrug it off as inevitable. And, of course, while the average risk to kids may be moderate, there's also the much higher risk of cases communicated by children to their family, faculty, and the community at large.
etempleton 5y ago
Wearing masks is also about keeping schools open. Yes, the risk to kids is low, but they are unvaccinated so outbreaks can and do happen. Substitutes are hard to get right now in most school districts and if you have an outbreak and even 5 percent of the teachers are home sick it is a very real possibility there won’t be a substitute to cover. In my local school district principals and administrators are covering classrooms for sick teachers because there are not enough subs. Teachers would traditionally just go to school sick, because they don’t get much sick time and even if they are sick they have to write a lesson plan for the sub, but now what do you do? Do you go to school even though you have a cold that could be covid? Do you write sub plans for a sub that might not be there? Bus drivers are also opting out because many are elderly and at high risk and the pay sucks so the risk reward isn’t there even if they are vaccinated. Same with lunch ladies, janitors, you name it. There is a staffing crisis in education right now. Teachers are burned out and those that can retire are at a higher rate than before. It is a mess. So no, children, even unvaccinated, aren’t likely to have complications from Covid, but wearing masks in schools might help just enough to keep schools open and operating.
- mlyle 5y ago
  This is a really good point, too: coverage for classes is hard. I've got a great workplace and we've not really had attrition, but when it comes time to find a sub we're facing a crazy marketplace: lots of teachers have left the profession; lots of people that would sub before are not bothering; and everyone needs more subs than the previous baseline.
  - actfrench 5y ago
    It's gotten worse and worse. There was just an article published in NPR at how schools are closing again on really short notice due to staff shortages. That said, when I was a sub in NYC, it was incredibly hard to get certified (really long training process and quite challenging test), and then when we did start working, we only got paid $150/day. The only reason I could even apply to sub was because I was a bilingual educator. Otherwise, they weren't taking new applications. So finding qualified people through a rigorous vetting process and then only paying them $150 is not a great recipe for having a plethora of substitute teachers around. https://www.npr.org/2021/11/23/1057979170/school-closures-mental-health-days-families-childcare-thanksgiving-break https://www.npr.org/2021/11/23/1057979170/school-closures-me...

mlyle 5y ago

> I don't want your dad to get covid either. Welp, students in my classes wearing their masks is a big part of how I'm still able to see my dad and not kill him. > Instead, everyone has to wear some kind of cloth mask to show that "wearing is caring". Because it's one of the most effective measures we have. Research (both observational and based on aerosol modeling) implies that surgical/cloth masks and getting windows open each reduces risk of infection about 4-5x, and they stack on top of each other for a ~20x total reduction. That's enough, with vaccination, to make me comfortable seeing my dad (masked). > The risk to children is absurdly low. About 70k kids hospitalized in the US so far-- so that's not absurdly low. And, again, the risk to children's families and faculty (and faculty families) counts too.

actfrench 5y ago
There is a huge risk to kids. My friends Jeremy Howard and Rachel Thomas recently compiled research on this topic. Especially of concern is long-term effects of COVID on children. Rachel says, "research shows we downplay long-term effects of Covid on children" https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1454242957259800578 https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1454242957259800578 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1420981223535517696 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1420981223535517696 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7
- mlyle 5y ago
  Who knows, right? As the Nature article you cited points out, the research we have now is poorly controlled and hopelessly confounded and pointing in many different directions. My personal belief is that COVID-19 and influenza are probably similar in children. But even that is more risk than people generally realize: a whole lot of permanent impact happens from influenza in children, but we just accept it and shrug it off as inevitable. And, of course, while the average risk to kids may be moderate, there's also the much higher risk of cases communicated by children to their family, faculty, and the community at large.

etempleton 5y ago

Wearing masks is also about keeping schools open. Yes, the risk to kids is low, but they are unvaccinated so outbreaks can and do happen. Substitutes are hard to get right now in most school districts and if you have an outbreak and even 5 percent of the teachers are home sick it is a very real possibility there won’t be a substitute to cover. In my local school district principals and administrators are covering classrooms for sick teachers because there are not enough subs. Teachers would traditionally just go to school sick, because they don’t get much sick time and even if they are sick they have to write a lesson plan for the sub, but now what do you do? Do you go to school even though you have a cold that could be covid? Do you write sub plans for a sub that might not be there? Bus drivers are also opting out because many are elderly and at high risk and the pay sucks so the risk reward isn’t there even if they are vaccinated. Same with lunch ladies, janitors, you name it. There is a staffing crisis in education right now. Teachers are burned out and those that can retire are at a higher rate than before. It is a mess. So no, children, even unvaccinated, aren’t likely to have complications from Covid, but wearing masks in schools might help just enough to keep schools open and operating.

mlyle 5y ago
This is a really good point, too: coverage for classes is hard. I've got a great workplace and we've not really had attrition, but when it comes time to find a sub we're facing a crazy marketplace: lots of teachers have left the profession; lots of people that would sub before are not bothering; and everyone needs more subs than the previous baseline.
- actfrench 5y ago
  It's gotten worse and worse. There was just an article published in NPR at how schools are closing again on really short notice due to staff shortages. That said, when I was a sub in NYC, it was incredibly hard to get certified (really long training process and quite challenging test), and then when we did start working, we only got paid $150/day. The only reason I could even apply to sub was because I was a bilingual educator. Otherwise, they weren't taking new applications. So finding qualified people through a rigorous vetting process and then only paying them $150 is not a great recipe for having a plethora of substitute teachers around. https://www.npr.org/2021/11/23/1057979170/school-closures-mental-health-days-families-childcare-thanksgiving-break https://www.npr.org/2021/11/23/1057979170/school-closures-me...