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I sort of hope so. Starting my child in Kindergarten this year has soured me to public schools somewhat. Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for pe

I sort of hope so. Starting my child in Kindergarten this year has soured me to public schools somewhat. Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk with no end in sight and seemingly dictated by the teachers' unions. Rudimentary and remedial math and reading education my child already learned in preschool just to catch every kid up to a common core. Cancelling fun holiday traditions in the name of equity and replacing them with bland, institutional versions (Halloween banned and replaced with a November "disguise day"). Most days my child comes home complaining how boring everything is and it kind of breaks my heart. I thought it'd be this inspirational learning center and instead it feels patronizing and mildly indoctrinating. Not sure there are other options though, so we'll make the most of it.

dkdk8283 5y ago
It %100 is indoctrination. I have my own gripes with the public school system that go against woke culture but there is literally nothing I can do except pony up for a private education.
- redthrow 5y ago
  How about homeschooling? https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-guide/ https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-gui...
  - actfrench 5y ago
    Or modular learning? I'm trying to advance the idea that there's a better word that better defines a decentralized approach to education which is not school at home, but school out in the world, drawing on the best resources available for each child's individual education https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-but-modular-learning-5233927f8fc9 https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-...
    - redthrow 5y ago
      Well there's "unschool", if you want a term that emphasizes that it's not school, but the way it's done is way more important than whatever it ends up being called. As Caplan mentions in the above post, he's troubled by unschoolers' subpar math skills, linking to a post citing a study. I don't think the blog post you cited addresses that point (among other points).
- actfrench 5y ago
  What's stopping you from pulling your kids out of school if you hate it so much? Genuinely curious.. is it childcare, a fear that you don't know how to teach, how to get started, worries about social learning? A lot of families are doing homeschooling, modular learning, microschooling... Also as someone who has taught in public and private schools, I will tell you that even the most elite private schools are not that much better. It's still a group of kids in one class doing way too much homework and very little freedom to pursue their own interests. Just as public school students are being indoctrinated, so are private school students. Indoctrinated, perhaps into different systems. The elite want to keep their kids elite, so maybe they are being indoctrinated into becoming the future leaders of wall Street and tech companies - and the government wants to control its citizens (there are some good reasons of course, for that, but a lot of bad reasons). Oddly, a lot of public school systems like bells and desks are designed to prepare kids to work for jobs in factories, so I'm not even sure this indoctrination is successful because it's a bit antiquated. Just hard to change.
  - dkdk8283 5y ago
    It’s a matter of time, for me. I would also be worried about socializing from homeschool. I work full time and my wife uses the time the kids are at school to manage activities, the home, etc. Home school would be explored if we had a live in nanny and perhaps someone to help design a curriculum.
mlyle 5y ago
> Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk I'm a teacher. I really don't want to catch COVID from a kid and bring it to my immunocompromised dad. So, irrespective of the risk to students (which is not high but I would not characterize it as low either), there are additionally risks to students' families and faculty.
- tqi 5y ago
  Those protocols are theater, and have no demonstrable effect on reducing transmission.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Actually, we have a number of studies-- showing lower transmission rates in schools using mitigations (ventilation improvements, screening, teacher microphones, and masking)-- and we have aerosol-model based physics providing justification for why this works -- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.23.21253503v3.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.23.21253503v... And, anecdote: I'm at a school with windows open & masking. We have a fair amount of mandated testing, and there's been no transmission at school detected despite several primary cases. Compare to other schools with a lot of transmission detected. I don't financially need to work. I find teaching rewarding, but I'm not willing to kill my dad for it, kthx. I'm glad to be at a school which is making a reasonable compromise in this area.
    - tqi 5y ago
      I'm speaking mostly about SFUSD covid guidelines[1], which prominently mention hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes, gloves, and gowns. AFAIK we have no evidence of those being effective at reducing indoor transmission. Re: risk, I think that is a completely reasonable position for you to take. I also think it is reasonable for parents to prefer an environment that they feel is optimized for their kids needs. [1] https://www.sfusd.edu/covid-19-response-updates-and-resources/health-and-safety-guidelines/maintaining-healthy-environments https://www.sfusd.edu/covid-19-response-updates-and-resource...
philliphaydon 5y ago
> Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk with no end in sight and seemingly dictated by the teachers' unions. The US Teachers union causes a LOT of problems. But mask, distancing, and sanitation are not one of them. You wouldn’t like living in Asia. Here it’s the norm. The only people who get upset are westerners. But atleast I feel like my daughter is safe, and my in laws are safe.
actfrench 5y ago
Hi Stolenmerch, I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. As a parent, there's nothing more heartbreaking than seeing your child is not loving learning. I really do feel for the people trying to organize education at scale for 55 million kids across the US and maintain some level of base performance, but honestly the whole thing does not work. As you've experienced, in lieu of having values, everything has turned into a bland disguise day so no one is offended. That (btw) is kind of a metaphor for everything. I was a teacher in public, private school and a private tutor and rarely saw a school that was able to individualize learning for kids in the way that was needed. In public school, there is huge pressure on everyone to perform well on standardized tests, and in private school, there's huge pressure to get kids into Ivy League schools (so that they will get more donations). Worst of all, as you point out is the patronizing attitudes to parents. There's this attitude that you don't know what's best for your child which is total BS. If you like, I'd be happy to talk you through some options, modular learning, homeschooling, various learning apps, starting a learning pod, other alternatives. Of course, it's always a balance of childcare and education, but there are some really exciting options sprouting out there - and there is hope for you. If you want to chat, you can email me at manisha[at]modulo[dot]app. I've seen it all and I love talking to parents about alternatives, it also helps me learn as I'm working on building a decentralized school system, so it's great to hear about people's hopes, fears, constraints and see if there are ways I can be of support.

dkdk8283 5y ago

It %100 is indoctrination. I have my own gripes with the public school system that go against woke culture but there is literally nothing I can do except pony up for a private education.

redthrow 5y ago
How about homeschooling? https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-guide/ https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-gui...
- actfrench 5y ago
  Or modular learning? I'm trying to advance the idea that there's a better word that better defines a decentralized approach to education which is not school at home, but school out in the world, drawing on the best resources available for each child's individual education https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-but-modular-learning-5233927f8fc9 https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-...
  - redthrow 5y ago
    Well there's "unschool", if you want a term that emphasizes that it's not school, but the way it's done is way more important than whatever it ends up being called. As Caplan mentions in the above post, he's troubled by unschoolers' subpar math skills, linking to a post citing a study. I don't think the blog post you cited addresses that point (among other points).
actfrench 5y ago
What's stopping you from pulling your kids out of school if you hate it so much? Genuinely curious.. is it childcare, a fear that you don't know how to teach, how to get started, worries about social learning? A lot of families are doing homeschooling, modular learning, microschooling... Also as someone who has taught in public and private schools, I will tell you that even the most elite private schools are not that much better. It's still a group of kids in one class doing way too much homework and very little freedom to pursue their own interests. Just as public school students are being indoctrinated, so are private school students. Indoctrinated, perhaps into different systems. The elite want to keep their kids elite, so maybe they are being indoctrinated into becoming the future leaders of wall Street and tech companies - and the government wants to control its citizens (there are some good reasons of course, for that, but a lot of bad reasons). Oddly, a lot of public school systems like bells and desks are designed to prepare kids to work for jobs in factories, so I'm not even sure this indoctrination is successful because it's a bit antiquated. Just hard to change.
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  It’s a matter of time, for me. I would also be worried about socializing from homeschool. I work full time and my wife uses the time the kids are at school to manage activities, the home, etc. Home school would be explored if we had a live in nanny and perhaps someone to help design a curriculum.

mlyle 5y ago

> Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk I'm a teacher. I really don't want to catch COVID from a kid and bring it to my immunocompromised dad. So, irrespective of the risk to students (which is not high but I would not characterize it as low either), there are additionally risks to students' families and faculty.

tqi 5y ago
Those protocols are theater, and have no demonstrable effect on reducing transmission.
- mlyle 5y ago
  Actually, we have a number of studies-- showing lower transmission rates in schools using mitigations (ventilation improvements, screening, teacher microphones, and masking)-- and we have aerosol-model based physics providing justification for why this works -- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.23.21253503v3.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.23.21253503v... And, anecdote: I'm at a school with windows open & masking. We have a fair amount of mandated testing, and there's been no transmission at school detected despite several primary cases. Compare to other schools with a lot of transmission detected. I don't financially need to work. I find teaching rewarding, but I'm not willing to kill my dad for it, kthx. I'm glad to be at a school which is making a reasonable compromise in this area.
  - tqi 5y ago
    I'm speaking mostly about SFUSD covid guidelines[1], which prominently mention hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes, gloves, and gowns. AFAIK we have no evidence of those being effective at reducing indoor transmission. Re: risk, I think that is a completely reasonable position for you to take. I also think it is reasonable for parents to prefer an environment that they feel is optimized for their kids needs. [1] https://www.sfusd.edu/covid-19-response-updates-and-resources/health-and-safety-guidelines/maintaining-healthy-environments https://www.sfusd.edu/covid-19-response-updates-and-resource...

philliphaydon 5y ago

> Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk with no end in sight and seemingly dictated by the teachers' unions. The US Teachers union causes a LOT of problems. But mask, distancing, and sanitation are not one of them. You wouldn’t like living in Asia. Here it’s the norm. The only people who get upset are westerners. But atleast I feel like my daughter is safe, and my in laws are safe.

actfrench 5y ago

Hi Stolenmerch, I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. As a parent, there's nothing more heartbreaking than seeing your child is not loving learning. I really do feel for the people trying to organize education at scale for 55 million kids across the US and maintain some level of base performance, but honestly the whole thing does not work. As you've experienced, in lieu of having values, everything has turned into a bland disguise day so no one is offended. That (btw) is kind of a metaphor for everything. I was a teacher in public, private school and a private tutor and rarely saw a school that was able to individualize learning for kids in the way that was needed. In public school, there is huge pressure on everyone to perform well on standardized tests, and in private school, there's huge pressure to get kids into Ivy League schools (so that they will get more donations). Worst of all, as you point out is the patronizing attitudes to parents. There's this attitude that you don't know what's best for your child which is total BS. If you like, I'd be happy to talk you through some options, modular learning, homeschooling, various learning apps, starting a learning pod, other alternatives. Of course, it's always a balance of childcare and education, but there are some really exciting options sprouting out there - and there is hope for you. If you want to chat, you can email me at manisha[at]modulo[dot]app. I've seen it all and I love talking to parents about alternatives, it also helps me learn as I'm working on building a decentralized school system, so it's great to hear about people's hopes, fears, constraints and see if there are ways I can be of support.