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> To me decentralization is a value. It's a goal, and yes, a goal that almost every web3 project falls short of in some way. But the whole point of building th

> To me decentralization is a value. It's a goal, and yes, a goal that almost every web3 project falls short of in some way. But the whole point of building these systems is to get away from the entrenched interests of centralized authority, and if these systems can't actually deliver on that, then what's the point of adopting them? At least my bank accounts are insured if the bank fails and transactions have to clear ACH. If my credit card gets stolen, I call Visa and they make it go away in a matter of minutes. If someone gets access to my private key, that's it, there's nothing I can do to get my crypto back. I don't want "kinda decentralized", I want "definitely decentralized". This attitude represents a major goalpost shift for this kind of movement. > But I think values are important. Values play a huge part in guiding human behavior. This seems to be a bit romantic to me. The community can talk about values all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that shitcoins are everywhere. We can all agree murder is bad, but that isn't going to stop murders from happening.

serverholic 5y ago
There is still a lot of value in "kinda decentralized". For example, you can download smart-contract bytecode and verify it. Go ahead and call up visa and ask for their source code. Another example is the immutability of smart contracts. If someone updates a contract and you don't like it then you can keep using the old one. Go ask robinhood if you can use an old version of their app. As far as private keys, I really don't know what to tell you. People lose their passwords all the time. Also smart wallets will help you recover you crypto wallet. UX is moving in the right direction here. > This seems to be a bit romantic to me. The community can talk about values all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that shitcoins are everywhere. We can all agree murder is bad, but that isn't going to stop murders from happening. So should we stop using email because of phishing? Or stop using phones because of spam calls? We educate people on phishing. We educate people on scam calls. We educate people on the dangers of investing in penny stocks. We educate people on the dangers of options trading. Why can't we educate people on shitcoins and decentralization? That's my point, crypto is a wild place but we can absolutely create a culture that moves things in the right direction.
- preseinger 5y ago
  > Go ahead and call up visa and ask for their source code. Visa's source code is incidental to the value it provides me. > Go ask robinhood if you can use an old version of their app. The version of the Robinhood app I'm using is incidental to the value it provides me. Their value is actually pretty strongly correlated with their ability to evolve their codebase in response to market demands without being burdened with backwards compatibility. > People lose their passwords all the time. Yep, and then they recover them, which isn't possible with a lost private key. > crypto is a wild place but we can absolutely create a culture that moves things in the right direction That crypto and decentralization is "the right direction" is absolutely not self-evident. Can you substantiate that position?
  - serverholic 5y ago
    In that case I'm happy Robinhood hasn't screwed you over. Unfortunately that isn't the case for everyone. In the past Robinhood has done questionable things like halting trading on a specific stock (GME) that other platforms didn't halt. I've also heard horror stories about people getting margin called due to bugs. I'm not saying smart-contracts are immune to these issues but the transparency of the bytecode being public is huge IMO. This is just a single example of course. Imagine for a moment that we have a decentralized facebook-like app. Wouldn't it be great if we could fork it if they did something we didn't like? You might think that's a pipe dream but my argument is that this becomes less of a pipedream the more we educate people. > That crypto and decentralization is "the right direction" is absolutely not self-evident. Can you substantiate that position? My position is that crypto and decentralization give people options and put pressure on existing institutions that IMO have become too powerful. My goal isn't necessarily to destroy Bank of America, Visa, or Robinhood but to inject some real competition into the system. That includes institutions like the federal reserve. I want there to be a spectrum of centralization <-> decentralization and let people choose what they're comfortable with. I want people to be able to say "Fuck bank of america, I'm going bankless". Or people can stick with what they know. Either way I think competition is good.
    - cinquemb 5y ago

serverholic 5y ago

There is still a lot of value in "kinda decentralized". For example, you can download smart-contract bytecode and verify it. Go ahead and call up visa and ask for their source code. Another example is the immutability of smart contracts. If someone updates a contract and you don't like it then you can keep using the old one. Go ask robinhood if you can use an old version of their app. As far as private keys, I really don't know what to tell you. People lose their passwords all the time. Also smart wallets will help you recover you crypto wallet. UX is moving in the right direction here. > This seems to be a bit romantic to me. The community can talk about values all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that shitcoins are everywhere. We can all agree murder is bad, but that isn't going to stop murders from happening. So should we stop using email because of phishing? Or stop using phones because of spam calls? We educate people on phishing. We educate people on scam calls. We educate people on the dangers of investing in penny stocks. We educate people on the dangers of options trading. Why can't we educate people on shitcoins and decentralization? That's my point, crypto is a wild place but we can absolutely create a culture that moves things in the right direction.

preseinger 5y ago
> Go ahead and call up visa and ask for their source code. Visa's source code is incidental to the value it provides me. > Go ask robinhood if you can use an old version of their app. The version of the Robinhood app I'm using is incidental to the value it provides me. Their value is actually pretty strongly correlated with their ability to evolve their codebase in response to market demands without being burdened with backwards compatibility. > People lose their passwords all the time. Yep, and then they recover them, which isn't possible with a lost private key. > crypto is a wild place but we can absolutely create a culture that moves things in the right direction That crypto and decentralization is "the right direction" is absolutely not self-evident. Can you substantiate that position?
- serverholic 5y ago
  In that case I'm happy Robinhood hasn't screwed you over. Unfortunately that isn't the case for everyone. In the past Robinhood has done questionable things like halting trading on a specific stock (GME) that other platforms didn't halt. I've also heard horror stories about people getting margin called due to bugs. I'm not saying smart-contracts are immune to these issues but the transparency of the bytecode being public is huge IMO. This is just a single example of course. Imagine for a moment that we have a decentralized facebook-like app. Wouldn't it be great if we could fork it if they did something we didn't like? You might think that's a pipe dream but my argument is that this becomes less of a pipedream the more we educate people. > That crypto and decentralization is "the right direction" is absolutely not self-evident. Can you substantiate that position? My position is that crypto and decentralization give people options and put pressure on existing institutions that IMO have become too powerful. My goal isn't necessarily to destroy Bank of America, Visa, or Robinhood but to inject some real competition into the system. That includes institutions like the federal reserve. I want there to be a spectrum of centralization <-> decentralization and let people choose what they're comfortable with. I want people to be able to say "Fuck bank of america, I'm going bankless". Or people can stick with what they know. Either way I think competition is good.
  - cinquemb 5y ago