4 ms·

Cool! Reminded me of playing trumpet. But with trumpet, the 3 valves do -2, -1, -3 semitones. And by adjusting your lips you can play 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x etc the fun

Cool! Reminded me of playing trumpet. But with trumpet, the 3 valves do -2, -1, -3 semitones. And by adjusting your lips you can play 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x etc the fundamental frequency. So e.g. all 3 valves down together makes -6. The Bb below middle C is 2x the fundamental, and with the valves you can get down from there by semitones to E, -6, the lowest note of the trumpet range. And having valves 1 + 2 = valve 3, there are multiple ways of playing almost every note, which comes in very handy when playing fast. So maybe having keys for -2, -1 and -3, and possibly using the mouse wheel to control multiples of frequency, would make a playable trumpety experience. Maybe pressing the mouse button while doing all that could actually sound the note. Because you need to be able to stop and start notes without moving the valve fingers. (Also on trumpet you can control volume and vibrato and pitch bend with your mouth.. and also do small pitch bends and change timbre by partially pressing the valves down..)

krallja 5y ago
I played tuba for six years in middle school and high school, which has the same valve fingerings as a trumpet. I don’t think anybody ever explained your first sentence to me. Was I supposed to just figure it out myself? My music theory was always quite weak…
- yesenadam 5y ago
  Hehe. Don't some tubas have a 4th valve too, which I guess could be -4. Edit: I looked it up, they're -5. With that you could play all the way down to the fundamental, and far below!
  - krallja 5y ago
    Yes, but all I remember being taught about the fourth valve was that it was “the same” as playing the first and third, but with better temperament. So you can play a C with it, or even a B if you also press the second valve.
    - yesenadam 5y ago
      Ah I see. Hmm maybe, since the 4 valves cover the whole octave from Bb down to B, you could give every octave that same valve fingering, and control the octave and other things with the other hand. Also, I think everyone fingers trumpet valves with their dominant hand! I couldn't play very fast at all with my non-dominant hand. So the keys for the valves on a keyboard might have to cater to both handednesses.
  - analog31 5y ago
    In addition to keys, there are also tuning slides to "fix" notes that the keyed fingerings don't quite agree with. It's fascinating to watch a good tubist play.
  - lifthrasiir 5y ago
    That sounds like Fibonacci coding [1] to me: you can express anything up to -13 semitones with just two fingers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding
ianthehenry 5y ago
Oh, wow. I didn't know brass instruments were so... logical! Another idea, keeping the same "home row" layout as before: Left hand is valves, right hand is "mouth." You can only press one "mouth key" at a time, and that sounds the note. (Brass instruments don't... can't... have any kind of polyphony, right?) I thought about adding expression by using mouse movements -- wiggle the mouse for vibrato, or use the absolute position of the mouse for volume or something. Kind of only works if you have a trackpad, though.
- yesenadam 5y ago
  > Brass instruments don't... can't... have any kind of polyphony, right? Well...If you sing another note you can get 2 or 3 notes at the same time e.g. James Morrison on trombone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXCBYuInnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXCBYuInnQ p.s. Coltrane playing 2 notes at once on saxophone, several times, in this Round Midnight solo from 1960. I've never heard him doing it apart from this solo, no idea why not, sounds awesome! https://youtu.be/eXJ31iveJbw?t=233 https://youtu.be/eXJ31iveJbw?t=233 Roland Kirk is just cheating here, playing 3 saxophones at once. /s https://youtu.be/ZIqLJmlQQNM?t=101 https://youtu.be/ZIqLJmlQQNM?t=101 (Bonus: 10 assorted Roland Kirk videos https://insheepsclothinghifi.com/10-roland-kirk-live-performances/ https://insheepsclothinghifi.com/10-roland-kirk-live-perform... ) I used to be able to whistle 2 notes at once and sing a 3rd, but haven't tried in years as it sounds so silly hehe. I had an idea for getting a choir all doing that...
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Thanks for your comments in this thread (ex sax player here). You probably are already aware of this but on the off chance that you are not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas
    - yesenadam 5y ago
      Thank you! I think I watched that video years ago (Anna-Maria Hefele's overtone singing) but forgot all about it, thanks for reminding me, I checked out more of her music just now. She's pretty amazing huh!
MandieD 5y ago
That is the best explanation I’ve ever read for what’s going on with trumpets - even a flutist can follow ;)
- yesenadam 5y ago
  Aw thank you. :-D

krallja 5y ago

I played tuba for six years in middle school and high school, which has the same valve fingerings as a trumpet. I don’t think anybody ever explained your first sentence to me. Was I supposed to just figure it out myself? My music theory was always quite weak…

yesenadam 5y ago
Hehe. Don't some tubas have a 4th valve too, which I guess could be -4. Edit: I looked it up, they're -5. With that you could play all the way down to the fundamental, and far below!
- krallja 5y ago
  Yes, but all I remember being taught about the fourth valve was that it was “the same” as playing the first and third, but with better temperament. So you can play a C with it, or even a B if you also press the second valve.
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    Ah I see. Hmm maybe, since the 4 valves cover the whole octave from Bb down to B, you could give every octave that same valve fingering, and control the octave and other things with the other hand. Also, I think everyone fingers trumpet valves with their dominant hand! I couldn't play very fast at all with my non-dominant hand. So the keys for the valves on a keyboard might have to cater to both handednesses.
- analog31 5y ago
  In addition to keys, there are also tuning slides to "fix" notes that the keyed fingerings don't quite agree with. It's fascinating to watch a good tubist play.
- lifthrasiir 5y ago
  That sounds like Fibonacci coding [1] to me: you can express anything up to -13 semitones with just two fingers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding

ianthehenry 5y ago

Oh, wow. I didn't know brass instruments were so... logical! Another idea, keeping the same "home row" layout as before: Left hand is valves, right hand is "mouth." You can only press one "mouth key" at a time, and that sounds the note. (Brass instruments don't... can't... have any kind of polyphony, right?) I thought about adding expression by using mouse movements -- wiggle the mouse for vibrato, or use the absolute position of the mouse for volume or something. Kind of only works if you have a trackpad, though.

yesenadam 5y ago
> Brass instruments don't... can't... have any kind of polyphony, right? Well...If you sing another note you can get 2 or 3 notes at the same time e.g. James Morrison on trombone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXCBYuInnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXCBYuInnQ p.s. Coltrane playing 2 notes at once on saxophone, several times, in this Round Midnight solo from 1960. I've never heard him doing it apart from this solo, no idea why not, sounds awesome! https://youtu.be/eXJ31iveJbw?t=233 https://youtu.be/eXJ31iveJbw?t=233 Roland Kirk is just cheating here, playing 3 saxophones at once. /s https://youtu.be/ZIqLJmlQQNM?t=101 https://youtu.be/ZIqLJmlQQNM?t=101 (Bonus: 10 assorted Roland Kirk videos https://insheepsclothinghifi.com/10-roland-kirk-live-performances/ https://insheepsclothinghifi.com/10-roland-kirk-live-perform... ) I used to be able to whistle 2 notes at once and sing a 3rd, but haven't tried in years as it sounds so silly hehe. I had an idea for getting a choir all doing that...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Thanks for your comments in this thread (ex sax player here). You probably are already aware of this but on the off chance that you are not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    Thank you! I think I watched that video years ago (Anna-Maria Hefele's overtone singing) but forgot all about it, thanks for reminding me, I checked out more of her music just now. She's pretty amazing huh!

MandieD 5y ago

That is the best explanation I’ve ever read for what’s going on with trumpets - even a flutist can follow ;)

yesenadam 5y ago
Aw thank you. :-D