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> almost every appliance on the market has managed to meet the most stringent label(A grade) so it was common to see say, dishwashers all rated A++++ or A++++++

> almost every appliance on the market has managed to meet the most stringent label(A grade) so it was common to see say, dishwashers all rated A++++ or A++++++ or something equally stupid. So last year the labels got significantly revised, and the old A label became the new F or whatever Y'know, this is why we invented ... numbers. Efficiency is not something that can be easily measured with a constant rating. Just let the number keep going up! Even people of below average intelligence can tell that a "1000" efficiency rating is better than an "800", even if a decade ago, manufacturers struggled to hit 100.

makapuf 5y ago
Or use some known units with it. However A-F grades also convey a good/bad that non knowledgeable people need. Is 7w.H per kg of washed clothes good for a washing machine? I don't know - but I know an A seems to be good for current models.
- bscphil 5y ago
  I could buy the case for a label with "A - 2018 rating" and the number with equally large text underneath it. The issue is just that the rating is often completely non-informative, unless you always buy the latest-year model of appliance.
acomjean 5y ago
In the US they stick a big label on appliances with the cost to run the device for a year. It makes it easier to compair.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Funny. I have a washing machine which depends on the amount of dirty laundry. How do they know how many people generate dirty laundry in my home ?
  - iggldiggl 5y ago
    I seem to remember it's just assumed that the washing machine is filled up to x % of capactiy on average, and that this is also at least partially to blame for the disappearance of smaller washing machines [1] – bigger washing machines are more energy-efficient, assuming they're actually used to capacity. Because assumed usage simply scales with the machine's capacity, manufacturers can simply bump up capacities in order to make their machines appear more efficient, never mind how much people actually fill up those machines in practice. [1] Our old washing machine had a capacity of something like 4 or 5 kg, which was perfectly fine for how we used it, but when we had to replace it a year or two ago, it was hard to find anything smaller than 7 or 8 kg.
    - bscphil 5y ago
      Wow. That's really frustrating. It's kind of wild how difficult it is to properly tune standards to create the correct incentives. I wonder if this is the sort of problem that's just the result of profit-seeking by manufacturers, or whether it's the result of a more fundamental problem with simplifying complex issues like "efficiency" down to a single target.

makapuf 5y ago

Or use some known units with it. However A-F grades also convey a good/bad that non knowledgeable people need. Is 7w.H per kg of washed clothes good for a washing machine? I don't know - but I know an A seems to be good for current models.

bscphil 5y ago
I could buy the case for a label with "A - 2018 rating" and the number with equally large text underneath it. The issue is just that the rating is often completely non-informative, unless you always buy the latest-year model of appliance.

acomjean 5y ago

In the US they stick a big label on appliances with the cost to run the device for a year. It makes it easier to compair.

hulitu 5y ago
Funny. I have a washing machine which depends on the amount of dirty laundry. How do they know how many people generate dirty laundry in my home ?
- iggldiggl 5y ago
  I seem to remember it's just assumed that the washing machine is filled up to x % of capactiy on average, and that this is also at least partially to blame for the disappearance of smaller washing machines [1] – bigger washing machines are more energy-efficient, assuming they're actually used to capacity. Because assumed usage simply scales with the machine's capacity, manufacturers can simply bump up capacities in order to make their machines appear more efficient, never mind how much people actually fill up those machines in practice. [1] Our old washing machine had a capacity of something like 4 or 5 kg, which was perfectly fine for how we used it, but when we had to replace it a year or two ago, it was hard to find anything smaller than 7 or 8 kg.
  - bscphil 5y ago
    Wow. That's really frustrating. It's kind of wild how difficult it is to properly tune standards to create the correct incentives. I wonder if this is the sort of problem that's just the result of profit-seeking by manufacturers, or whether it's the result of a more fundamental problem with simplifying complex issues like "efficiency" down to a single target.