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Indeed - my personal experience of this was at my business - I would admit my and our mistakes to the extent that the perception became that I was the source of

Indeed - my personal experience of this was at my business - I would admit my and our mistakes to the extent that the perception became that I was the source of all of our failures. My partner was and is a person who is never wrong, never fails, never makes a mistake - it’s always someone else who stymied his ambitions, or circumstance, or just bad luck. Never an error. I left, after a decade. It was partly of my own volition, but the moment I voiced the possibility he, and our investor, couldn’t show me the door quickly enough. Now, here’s the rub. I’ve been gone for nearly six years. In that time their revenue has fallen by 80%, their core product has been axed, and I am still the scapegoat. Even when they ultimately fail completely, which they will, and soon, as none of the issues I identified have been addressed, I am certain that they will go down crying “damn you, madaxe_again”. Reality, commercial or not, is purely a matter of perception.

77pt77 5y ago
Reality is not a matter of perception, but humans' reaction to it is. Until reality is inescapable.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Reality is a bitch, and when it hits, it hits hard. Also, the later it hits, the harder it does so.
- mro_name 5y ago
  "Reality is what you can't change" (Bazon Brock, Philosopher)
dstick 5y ago
You sound like a great person to work with and for. And I applaud your healthy look on the situation. Which can’t always have been / be, easy. But you’re wearing that scapegoat mantle with pride, and a touch of compassion. Some people just never learn. Best to stay clear of them and accept the way they think of you. You know better. You did the right thing.
serjester 5y ago
I have the same mindset but I don't think you appreciate the effect it has on the broader team. Yes you might have a specific individual that avoids taking responsibility but in my experience everyone picks up on this. People have a very strong intuitive smell for this kind of stuff. So in the longterm all someone does is burn leadership capital trying to pretend they're perfect. This isn't a viable strategy for succeeding in your career.
laurent92 5y ago
My father incites me to apologize often for saying true things that aren’t nice. There are two approaches, and I believe you are pointing something correct. If you apologize on any aspect, it is a well-known effect that you entirely revoke your legitimacy from the group. In the woke culture for example, the first who apologize has to also quit and lose its career entirely, it’s a recurring problem. The second approach is never to apologize. It’s annoying, but it keeps people in check. It’s an attribute of real power: making huge visible mistakes and not having to say something about it. And this is what wins in our current culture. People will accept your authority and you will avoid being the scapegoat, people will criticize a bit but much less (and that it the surprising effect) than if you say “I’m sorry”. The looks of an apology seems to trigger a reaction of entire reject from the group, even if your words were carefully measured and balanced. I empathize that you’ve lost your business to this. I sounded like you would instill an awesome culture where people recognize mistakes…
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  "If you apologize on any aspect, it is a well-known effect that you entirely revoke your legitimacy from the group" Modern approach to civil conflict. Maybe there should be a focus-group that teaches employees to acknowledge ("to own", as they preach) their mistakes?
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    It's not about how they do it but about what are the consequences.
hef19898 5y ago
That happens all the time. I think I am slowly getting the point of the story about Casandra. People that realize issues, voice them and raise them be properly addressed are almost never heard. Especially when these issues go against whatever group think narrative is in place. Those people also are the scapegoats when the bad things they predicted actually do happen. Because, hey, they knew it. So why didn't they do something about it? I feel you, usually I am one of the people to raise those issues. Now I am trying a different approach, being very careful how I voice that stuff, and making sure I do it indirectly wherever possible in those rare occasions I do. The rest of the time, I just try to keep my mouth shut. Kudos so for sticking around for 10 years.
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  I ended up with an almighty Cassandra complex, and by the time I left I was almost prepared to believe that I was the source of the issues I flagged. Hindsight, however, is everything - most of the engineering team left in my wake, and all that remains is a hollowed out core of sycophantic middle management. They went from an improbable 0% client churn to a revolving door of unhappy customers. Truly, it was a shame - and remains so - for my sake, however, my departure was the best thing I could have done, as it saved what precious threads of sanity I had remaining. I still hope for the sake of the once-friend I started the business with that he yet learns something. How does it go? For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'.
- native_samples 5y ago
  This pretty much sums up the last two years of fighting COVID. Governments/media/academics: we will solve the problem by doing X. Sceptics: that won't work / isn't working / hasn't worked. Governments/media/academics: it isn't working because of the unbelievers.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Academics mostly got it right, media thrived on conflict and false-balance while politics, especially German politics, were more concerned about elections than anything else.
Fnoord 5y ago
Would you say, in hindsight, that your partner was the wrong fit for you?
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  As the business developed, certainly - however in the early days our mutual antagonism served us well - every decision was challenged, and his ying to my yang meant that we got off to a roaring start. Unfortunately in latter years, this became more of an impediment than a boon, as I ended up spending a majority of my time disentangling situations he refused to even acknowledge the existence of. I can fight an uphill battle with gusto, but when it was against my own ally, it became utterly demoralising.

77pt77 5y ago

Reality is not a matter of perception, but humans' reaction to it is. Until reality is inescapable.

hef19898 5y ago
Reality is a bitch, and when it hits, it hits hard. Also, the later it hits, the harder it does so.
mro_name 5y ago
"Reality is what you can't change" (Bazon Brock, Philosopher)

dstick 5y ago

You sound like a great person to work with and for. And I applaud your healthy look on the situation. Which can’t always have been / be, easy. But you’re wearing that scapegoat mantle with pride, and a touch of compassion. Some people just never learn. Best to stay clear of them and accept the way they think of you. You know better. You did the right thing.

serjester 5y ago

I have the same mindset but I don't think you appreciate the effect it has on the broader team. Yes you might have a specific individual that avoids taking responsibility but in my experience everyone picks up on this. People have a very strong intuitive smell for this kind of stuff. So in the longterm all someone does is burn leadership capital trying to pretend they're perfect. This isn't a viable strategy for succeeding in your career.

laurent92 5y ago

My father incites me to apologize often for saying true things that aren’t nice. There are two approaches, and I believe you are pointing something correct. If you apologize on any aspect, it is a well-known effect that you entirely revoke your legitimacy from the group. In the woke culture for example, the first who apologize has to also quit and lose its career entirely, it’s a recurring problem. The second approach is never to apologize. It’s annoying, but it keeps people in check. It’s an attribute of real power: making huge visible mistakes and not having to say something about it. And this is what wins in our current culture. People will accept your authority and you will avoid being the scapegoat, people will criticize a bit but much less (and that it the surprising effect) than if you say “I’m sorry”. The looks of an apology seems to trigger a reaction of entire reject from the group, even if your words were carefully measured and balanced. I empathize that you’ve lost your business to this. I sounded like you would instill an awesome culture where people recognize mistakes…

catlikesshrimp 5y ago
"If you apologize on any aspect, it is a well-known effect that you entirely revoke your legitimacy from the group" Modern approach to civil conflict. Maybe there should be a focus-group that teaches employees to acknowledge ("to own", as they preach) their mistakes?
- DarylZero 5y ago
  It's not about how they do it but about what are the consequences.

hef19898 5y ago

That happens all the time. I think I am slowly getting the point of the story about Casandra. People that realize issues, voice them and raise them be properly addressed are almost never heard. Especially when these issues go against whatever group think narrative is in place. Those people also are the scapegoats when the bad things they predicted actually do happen. Because, hey, they knew it. So why didn't they do something about it? I feel you, usually I am one of the people to raise those issues. Now I am trying a different approach, being very careful how I voice that stuff, and making sure I do it indirectly wherever possible in those rare occasions I do. The rest of the time, I just try to keep my mouth shut. Kudos so for sticking around for 10 years.

madaxe_again 5y ago
I ended up with an almighty Cassandra complex, and by the time I left I was almost prepared to believe that I was the source of the issues I flagged. Hindsight, however, is everything - most of the engineering team left in my wake, and all that remains is a hollowed out core of sycophantic middle management. They went from an improbable 0% client churn to a revolving door of unhappy customers. Truly, it was a shame - and remains so - for my sake, however, my departure was the best thing I could have done, as it saved what precious threads of sanity I had remaining. I still hope for the sake of the once-friend I started the business with that he yet learns something. How does it go? For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'.
native_samples 5y ago
This pretty much sums up the last two years of fighting COVID. Governments/media/academics: we will solve the problem by doing X. Sceptics: that won't work / isn't working / hasn't worked. Governments/media/academics: it isn't working because of the unbelievers.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Academics mostly got it right, media thrived on conflict and false-balance while politics, especially German politics, were more concerned about elections than anything else.

Fnoord 5y ago

Would you say, in hindsight, that your partner was the wrong fit for you?

madaxe_again 5y ago
As the business developed, certainly - however in the early days our mutual antagonism served us well - every decision was challenged, and his ying to my yang meant that we got off to a roaring start. Unfortunately in latter years, this became more of an impediment than a boon, as I ended up spending a majority of my time disentangling situations he refused to even acknowledge the existence of. I can fight an uphill battle with gusto, but when it was against my own ally, it became utterly demoralising.