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This article is toxic garbage. The best example of this is how the NYC Second Avenue subway project is cited as an example of costs out of control. This proje

This article is toxic garbage. The best example of this is how the NYC Second Avenue subway project is cited as an example of costs out of control. This project was initially proposed around a hundred years ago and over time was repeatedly rejected as being far too expensive to ever make sense and then raised again and again for consideration. At the time the work started there was a hundred years of literature going into detail about the many complexities involving other power, water, and sewer infrastructure as well as multiple other subway lines and difficult geological constraints. Well before any work was done it was extremely well established that a Second Avenue subway could only ever be astronomically expensive. Taking a project that was refused for a hundred years because of the apparent extreme difficulties and using that as an example of how US infrastructure costs too much is blatant manipulation. The nearest popular comparison I can think of would be saying that American military efforts cost too much because D-Day was shockingly expensive. Military conflicts don't work that way and neither does infrastructure construction.

Shacklz 5y ago
Reading comprehension. They may or may not have picked an unfortunate example to make their point, but that by no means refutes their initial statement: > Mile for mile, studies show the U.S. spends more than all but five other countries in the world on public transit, and more on roads than any other country that discloses spending data.
asdff 5y ago
Replace the second avenue subway with any other major passenger rail line built in the US in the last ten years, look at the costs per mile of track laid, and see that this is not some unique geological issue with manhattan but a national issue with the ability to cheaply and quickly construct capital improvements.
- m0llusk 5y ago
  That makes no sense. Most subways are built with cut and cover. The Second Avenue was only made possible with the very latest in tunneling technology. And that meant a path being dug carefully around multiple existing subways, lots of other infrastructure, and the relatively delicate foundations of old buildings. Furthermore, as I pointed out, the extreme impracticality of the Second Avenue subway was documented starting from the first proposal around a hundred years ago which was rejected as being too expensive to make sense. And that was the first of many such studies. Yes, we need to figure out infrastructure and have some problems, but a project that was known to be essentially impossible for a hundred years is being used as a way to bump the averages here. It is not possible to effectively or reasonably generalize based on the most extreme exception available.
  - Shacklz 5y ago
    Again: Reading comprehension. Reread OPs comment again, he wasn't referring to some averages over all projects, he was telling you to take any project and you will see similar issues.
jonathankoren 5y ago
It's a billion dollars just to do environmental review for the Link21 Program[0] in the SF Bay[1] [0] https://link21program.org/en https://link21program.org/en [1] https://climaterwc.com/2021/08/20/1-billion-estimated-just-to-plan-for-second-transbay-tube-regional-enhancements/ https://climaterwc.com/2021/08/20/1-billion-estimated-just-t...

Shacklz 5y ago

Reading comprehension. They may or may not have picked an unfortunate example to make their point, but that by no means refutes their initial statement: > Mile for mile, studies show the U.S. spends more than all but five other countries in the world on public transit, and more on roads than any other country that discloses spending data.

asdff 5y ago

Replace the second avenue subway with any other major passenger rail line built in the US in the last ten years, look at the costs per mile of track laid, and see that this is not some unique geological issue with manhattan but a national issue with the ability to cheaply and quickly construct capital improvements.

m0llusk 5y ago
That makes no sense. Most subways are built with cut and cover. The Second Avenue was only made possible with the very latest in tunneling technology. And that meant a path being dug carefully around multiple existing subways, lots of other infrastructure, and the relatively delicate foundations of old buildings. Furthermore, as I pointed out, the extreme impracticality of the Second Avenue subway was documented starting from the first proposal around a hundred years ago which was rejected as being too expensive to make sense. And that was the first of many such studies. Yes, we need to figure out infrastructure and have some problems, but a project that was known to be essentially impossible for a hundred years is being used as a way to bump the averages here. It is not possible to effectively or reasonably generalize based on the most extreme exception available.
- Shacklz 5y ago
  Again: Reading comprehension. Reread OPs comment again, he wasn't referring to some averages over all projects, he was telling you to take any project and you will see similar issues.

jonathankoren 5y ago

It's a billion dollars just to do environmental review for the Link21 Program[0] in the SF Bay[1] [0] https://link21program.org/en https://link21program.org/en [1] https://climaterwc.com/2021/08/20/1-billion-estimated-just-to-plan-for-second-transbay-tube-regional-enhancements/ https://climaterwc.com/2021/08/20/1-billion-estimated-just-t...