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Well, I happen to know that Apple management signed many deals with the US, which is just as problematic of a world state as China, if not more so. That is to

Well, I happen to know that Apple management signed many deals with the US, which is just as problematic of a world state as China, if not more so. That is to say - unless you have a planet-wide blind spot, this title evokes the same emotional response as, say, "JD.com signed RMB 275B deal with US corporations in 2016".

poutine 5y ago
There is no moral equivalency between the US and China. Stop this right away.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  What do you mean no moral equivalency? Are you suggesting one is obviously superior than the other? Judging the behaviors in the 21st century, I think China is morally superior to US? Based on the wars invoked by IS, and the poverty elimination done by China. Obviously China improved Chinese citizens living standard dramatically, while US are doing the opposite across the world.
  - trasz 5y ago
    Sadly, this discussion always goes the same way. You'll see accusations of concentration camps, then countered by the existence of actual forced labour camps (private prisons), then "countered" by being called a weebo. It's a fundamental mental difference between many Americans and the rest of the western world, the american exceptionalism.
    - rscoots 5y ago
      [flagged]
  - onepointsixC 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - star-trek-fleet 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - onepointsixC 5y ago
        >I have stated multiple times that muslim or uygur genocide in Xinjiang is a laughable propaganda lie. That you have stated so does not mean if it is true or not. Your Chinese source doesn't change the fact that Uyghur birthrates dropped by a 60% between 2015 to 2018 according to Chinese government statistics. From 2016 there was a seven-fold increase in sterilization [1]. There are no natural reasons why that would happen, only to Uyghurs, entirely limited within Xinjiang in such a short amount of time. It is the textbook definition of genocide [2]. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... [2]: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
        trasz 5y ago
        [flagged]
        onepointsixC 5y ago
        > Birth rates always drop when the quality of life improves. Sure. They do not drop 60% in only a few years, only amongst a single ethnic group in a single region. The numerous testimonies, plus recently leaked documents confirming this is an explicit CCP policy removes any doubt.
        trasz 5y ago
        That's true. However, it seems in China some things just happen much more quickly than anywhere else. This happens with building new nuclear power plants (or building anything, really), and I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it also happened to things like sex education, especially given Chinese lack of tolerance towards religious extremism and the reproduction rights hurdles it brings, even in nominally civilised countries like the US. Another thing about those official Chinese statistics is... well, personally I'd take them with a grain of salt. China is still far behind the West when it comes to transparency. The testimonies are a strong argument, however we're in the middle of information war against China. There is also the argument of the amount of those testimonies: there are surprisingly few of them, given millions of people armed with smartphones who live there.
  - lastbitwritten 5y ago
    You are based in the US? Try posting that ‘The US is morally superior to China’ in China, and you are going to spend a lot of time being re-educated as to why that’s not true. But seriously, I just want to privately practice tennis.
    - justicezyx 5y ago
      No I totally think US is overall superior to China right now, when comparing 2 nations snapshot vs snapshot. But, US perception on China is so bad compared the Chain perception on US, that this imbalance is creating a huge strategic risk between 2 nuclear super power, and causes both sides troubles when they need to collaborate. That's why it's important to unshackle the US mass from the perception bias on China. And that's what I want to convey. I.e., stop using grandiose sweeping argument like moral superiority, which is itself so large in scope that the comparison quickly lost any relevance.
      - lastbitwritten 5y ago
        I guess things are going to look bad to other people when you run your country as a dictatorship. Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’, I’ll come dressed as Winnie the Pooh.
        justicezyx 5y ago
        I am not sure what do you want to say. > Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’ I think the Tankman incident is a silver light in the whole event, i.e., the individual stand against the tank, and the tank decide to go different route; and eventually the confrontation was dissolved by bystanders. If you emphasize the confrontation, you'll use the t-shirt you mentioned. For me, I'll wear a t-shirt stating: remember the tragedy. And what's the point of this to do with altering the perception on China? If you just narrow your viewpoint onto Tankman, that's going to miss so much of other things happening in China. It's like focusing on Gorge Floyd, and ignoring all the other things happening in US. What's the point of such narrow view? > I’ll come dressed as Winnie the Pooh. If you cut all the implication to Xi, I see no danger whatsoever of wearing that on Tiananmen, or anywhere in China. Politics in China is different. That's just a cultural thing. Parents are also more authoritative, that's part of the cultural as well. Mocking people public is considered an insult. Not just to Xi, to any normal Chinese citizen, that's considered inappropriate. If you feel that your own culture is so superior that others should automatically accept; and if they don't like it, then you'll call them a lot of bad words, and try to force the narrative, then you are practicing fascism? Good luck with that.
- trasz 5y ago
  Indeed - one of them killed about million innocent people in the last two decades, the other was focused on peaceful economic growth instead.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    neither country has been focused on peaceful economic growth in the last two decades. but their sins aren't equal, either.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Look, I am well enough aware of the depth of the crimes and misdeeds of US imperialism. I'm not blind. But the current Chinese regime has many repressive aspects, different and often more grave than those we find in the US. Also, if one examines its history, the number of internal deaths arguably caused by government malfeasance is much greater in China than in the US. So while I may agree with your bottom line, a person weighing the failings of the US and China may argue that "China is worse", and that would not be a preposterous claim even if we disagree with it.

poutine 5y ago

There is no moral equivalency between the US and China. Stop this right away.

justicezyx 5y ago
What do you mean no moral equivalency? Are you suggesting one is obviously superior than the other? Judging the behaviors in the 21st century, I think China is morally superior to US? Based on the wars invoked by IS, and the poverty elimination done by China. Obviously China improved Chinese citizens living standard dramatically, while US are doing the opposite across the world.
- trasz 5y ago
  Sadly, this discussion always goes the same way. You'll see accusations of concentration camps, then countered by the existence of actual forced labour camps (private prisons), then "countered" by being called a weebo. It's a fundamental mental difference between many Americans and the rest of the western world, the american exceptionalism.
  - rscoots 5y ago
    [flagged]
- onepointsixC 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - star-trek-fleet 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - onepointsixC 5y ago
      >I have stated multiple times that muslim or uygur genocide in Xinjiang is a laughable propaganda lie. That you have stated so does not mean if it is true or not. Your Chinese source doesn't change the fact that Uyghur birthrates dropped by a 60% between 2015 to 2018 according to Chinese government statistics. From 2016 there was a seven-fold increase in sterilization [1]. There are no natural reasons why that would happen, only to Uyghurs, entirely limited within Xinjiang in such a short amount of time. It is the textbook definition of genocide [2]. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... [2]: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
      - trasz 5y ago
        [flagged]
        onepointsixC 5y ago
        > Birth rates always drop when the quality of life improves. Sure. They do not drop 60% in only a few years, only amongst a single ethnic group in a single region. The numerous testimonies, plus recently leaked documents confirming this is an explicit CCP policy removes any doubt.
        trasz 5y ago
        That's true. However, it seems in China some things just happen much more quickly than anywhere else. This happens with building new nuclear power plants (or building anything, really), and I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it also happened to things like sex education, especially given Chinese lack of tolerance towards religious extremism and the reproduction rights hurdles it brings, even in nominally civilised countries like the US. Another thing about those official Chinese statistics is... well, personally I'd take them with a grain of salt. China is still far behind the West when it comes to transparency. The testimonies are a strong argument, however we're in the middle of information war against China. There is also the argument of the amount of those testimonies: there are surprisingly few of them, given millions of people armed with smartphones who live there.
- lastbitwritten 5y ago
  You are based in the US? Try posting that ‘The US is morally superior to China’ in China, and you are going to spend a lot of time being re-educated as to why that’s not true. But seriously, I just want to privately practice tennis.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    No I totally think US is overall superior to China right now, when comparing 2 nations snapshot vs snapshot. But, US perception on China is so bad compared the Chain perception on US, that this imbalance is creating a huge strategic risk between 2 nuclear super power, and causes both sides troubles when they need to collaborate. That's why it's important to unshackle the US mass from the perception bias on China. And that's what I want to convey. I.e., stop using grandiose sweeping argument like moral superiority, which is itself so large in scope that the comparison quickly lost any relevance.
    - lastbitwritten 5y ago
      I guess things are going to look bad to other people when you run your country as a dictatorship. Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’, I’ll come dressed as Winnie the Pooh.
      - justicezyx 5y ago
        I am not sure what do you want to say. > Lets meet as friends in Tiananmen square - you wear a t-shirt saying ‘what happened here in 1989?’ I think the Tankman incident is a silver light in the whole event, i.e., the individual stand against the tank, and the tank decide to go different route; and eventually the confrontation was dissolved by bystanders. If you emphasize the confrontation, you'll use the t-shirt you mentioned. For me, I'll wear a t-shirt stating: remember the tragedy. And what's the point of this to do with altering the perception on China? If you just narrow your viewpoint onto Tankman, that's going to miss so much of other things happening in China. It's like focusing on Gorge Floyd, and ignoring all the other things happening in US. What's the point of such narrow view? > I’ll come dressed as Winnie the Pooh. If you cut all the implication to Xi, I see no danger whatsoever of wearing that on Tiananmen, or anywhere in China. Politics in China is different. That's just a cultural thing. Parents are also more authoritative, that's part of the cultural as well. Mocking people public is considered an insult. Not just to Xi, to any normal Chinese citizen, that's considered inappropriate. If you feel that your own culture is so superior that others should automatically accept; and if they don't like it, then you'll call them a lot of bad words, and try to force the narrative, then you are practicing fascism? Good luck with that.
trasz 5y ago
Indeed - one of them killed about million innocent people in the last two decades, the other was focused on peaceful economic growth instead.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  neither country has been focused on peaceful economic growth in the last two decades. but their sins aren't equal, either.
einpoklum 5y ago
Look, I am well enough aware of the depth of the crimes and misdeeds of US imperialism. I'm not blind. But the current Chinese regime has many repressive aspects, different and often more grave than those we find in the US. Also, if one examines its history, the number of internal deaths arguably caused by government malfeasance is much greater in China than in the US. So while I may agree with your bottom line, a person weighing the failings of the US and China may argue that "China is worse", and that would not be a preposterous claim even if we disagree with it.