4 ms·

This is not an example of windows doing anything unix like. We simply have to take a different mindset when using Windows vs unix. Windows has always had a way

This is not an example of windows doing anything unix like. We simply have to take a different mindset when using Windows vs unix. Windows has always had a way to communicate between components and that it does better than anything else.

cma 5y ago
Up until the networked era at least where its communication between components was the source of thousands and thousands of vulnerabilities for Windows (ActiveX, thumbnail renderer, office apps embedded in emails...).
kaba0 5y ago
How is using multiple single-purpose tools to solve a problem not “unix-like”? Isn’t that the reason why people like POSIX-shells? It just happens that windows has better integration between even GUI apps, which is directly available from the shell. Linux’s analog would be dbus, but that is not integrated with the shell natively.
- mmcgaha 5y ago
  With a unixy design, powerpoint would only edit powerpoint documents and it would send the data to other programs for printing or PDF creation. In your case, the powerpoint program would never be called. You would simply send the powerpoint data to a program that converts powerpoint to maybe postscript, and you would send the postscript to ghostscript to make a PDF. The unix like a approach is a bit more decoupled. I cannot think of a single GUI program on linux that works this way (xfig maybe?) but in my mind, this would be the unix way. Of course by the mid 90s, the unix way lost out to the windows way so our GUI world on linux has something of a personality disorder.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    It can’t really send powerpoint data to any other program, can it? It is a highly complex data format, and the logical conclusion would be n*m tools for interconverting between different formats — that would be bloated as hell. The fact is, sometimes we do need a program that fulfills a whole domain, not just a specific problem. For this conversion problem domain, there is pandoc for example. I will be hated for this, but systemd would be another good example — you really can’t and should not subdivide such a complex problem into more specific ones. It should be tackled in one place (although systemd is quite modular besides that)
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Could ppt files be represented as pure text/strings? I believe docx can, as its some sort of XML structure Where is the complexity and overhead? Ppt exports PDF files just fine, would it really be so complicated to move that to an external program?
      - kaba0 5y ago
        And then write another program for ppt-to-txt and every conceivable format? You might then say, okay, then first create an intermediary format but depending on program domain that may be more hassle than its worth it. Powerpoint is made for correctly understanding .ppt(x) files. This complicated functionality should probably not be replicated at other programs as well.
pjmlp 5y ago
Some UNIXes had something similar, NeWS, OpenSTEP DSOs (now macOS XPC),... And even GNU/Linux could offer a similar experience if the ecosystem would actually buy into D-BUS or KParts, but that isn't never going to happen, and when only in a specific distribution, with the distribution specific apps, largely ignored by the remaining eco-system.

cma 5y ago

Up until the networked era at least where its communication between components was the source of thousands and thousands of vulnerabilities for Windows (ActiveX, thumbnail renderer, office apps embedded in emails...).

kaba0 5y ago

How is using multiple single-purpose tools to solve a problem not “unix-like”? Isn’t that the reason why people like POSIX-shells? It just happens that windows has better integration between even GUI apps, which is directly available from the shell. Linux’s analog would be dbus, but that is not integrated with the shell natively.

mmcgaha 5y ago
With a unixy design, powerpoint would only edit powerpoint documents and it would send the data to other programs for printing or PDF creation. In your case, the powerpoint program would never be called. You would simply send the powerpoint data to a program that converts powerpoint to maybe postscript, and you would send the postscript to ghostscript to make a PDF. The unix like a approach is a bit more decoupled. I cannot think of a single GUI program on linux that works this way (xfig maybe?) but in my mind, this would be the unix way. Of course by the mid 90s, the unix way lost out to the windows way so our GUI world on linux has something of a personality disorder.
- kaba0 5y ago
  It can’t really send powerpoint data to any other program, can it? It is a highly complex data format, and the logical conclusion would be n*m tools for interconverting between different formats — that would be bloated as hell. The fact is, sometimes we do need a program that fulfills a whole domain, not just a specific problem. For this conversion problem domain, there is pandoc for example. I will be hated for this, but systemd would be another good example — you really can’t and should not subdivide such a complex problem into more specific ones. It should be tackled in one place (although systemd is quite modular besides that)
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Could ppt files be represented as pure text/strings? I believe docx can, as its some sort of XML structure Where is the complexity and overhead? Ppt exports PDF files just fine, would it really be so complicated to move that to an external program?
    - kaba0 5y ago
      And then write another program for ppt-to-txt and every conceivable format? You might then say, okay, then first create an intermediary format but depending on program domain that may be more hassle than its worth it. Powerpoint is made for correctly understanding .ppt(x) files. This complicated functionality should probably not be replicated at other programs as well.

pjmlp 5y ago

Some UNIXes had something similar, NeWS, OpenSTEP DSOs (now macOS XPC),... And even GNU/Linux could offer a similar experience if the ecosystem would actually buy into D-BUS or KParts, but that isn't never going to happen, and when only in a specific distribution, with the distribution specific apps, largely ignored by the remaining eco-system.