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I don't understand this sentiment at all. I have no idea what any of what you're posting has to do with "well intentions" or "money mak[ing] people do anything

by wffurr 5y ago

I don't understand this sentiment at all. I have no idea what any of what you're posting has to do with "well intentions" or "money mak[ing] people do anything". Are you just mad that dislikes were removed from YouTube? I don't see what that has to do with any of those statements.

mindcrime 5y ago
don't understand this sentiment at all. I have no idea what any of what you're posting has to do with "well intentions" or "money mak[ing] people do anything". Pretty sure they're saying that the YT developers would break their cool hack if they knew about it, because they want to keep their jobs (eg, getting paid, or "making money"). Sounds like the OP wants to view all developers as adhering to some Platonic ideal version of a "hacker ethic" where they wouldn't do something like that for a reason as banal as money. I can sympathise with this position, but I acknowledge the reality that - at the end of the day - people are usually going to prioritize buying food, paying rent, etc., over adherence to abstract ethical principles. That's unfortunate in many ways, but hunger is a powerful motivation. Are you just mad that dislikes were removed from YouTube? I don't see what that has to do with any of those statements. I get the impression that the OP thing was lamenting the YT thing both specifically and as an example of a general class of similar situations... places where you have to hold back from sharing a neat hack because if you shared it, somebody would come along and ruin it.
- behnamoh 5y ago
  Thank you. Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    They will break it sooner or later. IMO it's better to release it and let YouTube break it, so the existence of third-party dislike counters becomes more justified, by their own doing.
- wffurr 5y ago
  That's... incredibly naive. And I don't think YouTube dislikes are a clear-cut case of "bad thing done for money". It can easily be argued either way. It's also naive to think that YouTube developers don't already know about said hacks / workarounds.
  - mindcrime 5y ago
    That's... incredibly naive. Naive, or just abstract? I think most of us can agree that at some level of abstraction we would prefer that people put ideals and principles over banal concerns like money. It simply happens to be the case that, as of today, we don't live in a world that makes it easy to live that way. Let's also not get too caught up in this Youtube thing. If I'm interpreting this correctly, that was just an example of a more general idea, not the sole topic of discussion. It's also naive to think that YouTube developers don't already know about said hacks / workarounds. Sure, but that doesn't mean they're going to prioritize dealing with it, unless somebody calls attention to it by, for example, posting about it on HN. I think the OP has a valid point that sometimes people have some $THING they might sorta want to talk about, but ultimately decide not to post here, because undue attention could be detrimental to $THING.
np- 5y ago
Not OP, but I think it’s more in context of using websites in ways that weren’t originally intended by the original devs. One small example is using hidden internal APIs to show dislikes on YouTube. Another example might be something like figuring out how to bypass advertising on a website to use it, or reverse engineering a site to get the raw data, etc etc… If some of these workarounds are published and become popular, then there is a risk the original devs would shut it all down, so the optimal strategy is to fly under the radar and tell no one, thus maximizing benefit for yourself even though it’s clear others could potentially benefit.

by wffurr 5y ago

mindcrime 5y ago

don't understand this sentiment at all. I have no idea what any of what you're posting has to do with "well intentions" or "money mak[ing] people do anything". Pretty sure they're saying that the YT developers would break their cool hack if they knew about it, because they want to keep their jobs (eg, getting paid, or "making money"). Sounds like the OP wants to view all developers as adhering to some Platonic ideal version of a "hacker ethic" where they wouldn't do something like that for a reason as banal as money. I can sympathise with this position, but I acknowledge the reality that - at the end of the day - people are usually going to prioritize buying food, paying rent, etc., over adherence to abstract ethical principles. That's unfortunate in many ways, but hunger is a powerful motivation. Are you just mad that dislikes were removed from YouTube? I don't see what that has to do with any of those statements. I get the impression that the OP thing was lamenting the YT thing both specifically and as an example of a general class of similar situations... places where you have to hold back from sharing a neat hack because if you shared it, somebody would come along and ruin it.

behnamoh 5y ago
Thank you. Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  They will break it sooner or later. IMO it's better to release it and let YouTube break it, so the existence of third-party dislike counters becomes more justified, by their own doing.
wffurr 5y ago
That's... incredibly naive. And I don't think YouTube dislikes are a clear-cut case of "bad thing done for money". It can easily be argued either way. It's also naive to think that YouTube developers don't already know about said hacks / workarounds.
- mindcrime 5y ago
  That's... incredibly naive. Naive, or just abstract? I think most of us can agree that at some level of abstraction we would prefer that people put ideals and principles over banal concerns like money. It simply happens to be the case that, as of today, we don't live in a world that makes it easy to live that way. Let's also not get too caught up in this Youtube thing. If I'm interpreting this correctly, that was just an example of a more general idea, not the sole topic of discussion. It's also naive to think that YouTube developers don't already know about said hacks / workarounds. Sure, but that doesn't mean they're going to prioritize dealing with it, unless somebody calls attention to it by, for example, posting about it on HN. I think the OP has a valid point that sometimes people have some $THING they might sorta want to talk about, but ultimately decide not to post here, because undue attention could be detrimental to $THING.

np- 5y ago

Not OP, but I think it’s more in context of using websites in ways that weren’t originally intended by the original devs. One small example is using hidden internal APIs to show dislikes on YouTube. Another example might be something like figuring out how to bypass advertising on a website to use it, or reverse engineering a site to get the raw data, etc etc… If some of these workarounds are published and become popular, then there is a risk the original devs would shut it all down, so the optimal strategy is to fly under the radar and tell no one, thus maximizing benefit for yourself even though it’s clear others could potentially benefit.