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Hospitals are not designed to be empty, though. So you can’t just point to 80% full ICU beds and say a hospital is overwhelmed. Is there any data showing ICU be

Hospitals are not designed to be empty, though. So you can’t just point to 80% full ICU beds and say a hospital is overwhelmed. Is there any data showing ICU beds filled above carrying capacity? Or number of patients transferred to a different hospital due to bed shortage?

germinalphrase 5y ago
This is the reported situation here in Minnesota as of yesterday: “Statewide, nearly 98% of adult ICU beds and 95% of overflow, observation, and active surge/expansion beds for adults were occupied, according to the state Department of Health.” Likewise, hospital are routinely denying transfers. I’m also not sure what “above carrying capacity” would mean here. They’re not sticking two to a bed.
ptaipale 5y ago
Even in countries with fairly good covid situation (I'm in Finland) we are going to see excess mortality over the coming years, because right now as we speak, elective operations for heart surgeries and cancer operations are being postponed in order to make room for covid patients. ICU wards are designed for normal operations at near-full capacity. Maintaining a large-scale vacant ICU capacity is both uneconomical and operationally very difficult (because ICU treatment skills are highly specific and learning, maintaining and updating them requires one to be working on the area).
- disambiguation 5y ago
  This will show up as excess mortality of "preventable deaths". But those stats will be overshadowed by 2 larger factors: 1. the pendulum will swing back as covid goes to zero .. fewer unhealthy and elderly members of the population will result in overall lower mortality rates in the short term (2-3 years). 2. baby boomers are coming of age .. a baby boom is eventually followed by a death boom. This will drive up the mortality rate long term (5-10 years).
hef19898 5y ago
In Germany wr have evacuatiom flights from Bavaria to Hamburg for example. We had that early in the pandemic from France and Italy to Germany. So yes, there are numbers for sure somewhere.

germinalphrase 5y ago

This is the reported situation here in Minnesota as of yesterday: “Statewide, nearly 98% of adult ICU beds and 95% of overflow, observation, and active surge/expansion beds for adults were occupied, according to the state Department of Health.” Likewise, hospital are routinely denying transfers. I’m also not sure what “above carrying capacity” would mean here. They’re not sticking two to a bed.

ptaipale 5y ago

Even in countries with fairly good covid situation (I'm in Finland) we are going to see excess mortality over the coming years, because right now as we speak, elective operations for heart surgeries and cancer operations are being postponed in order to make room for covid patients. ICU wards are designed for normal operations at near-full capacity. Maintaining a large-scale vacant ICU capacity is both uneconomical and operationally very difficult (because ICU treatment skills are highly specific and learning, maintaining and updating them requires one to be working on the area).

disambiguation 5y ago
This will show up as excess mortality of "preventable deaths". But those stats will be overshadowed by 2 larger factors: 1. the pendulum will swing back as covid goes to zero .. fewer unhealthy and elderly members of the population will result in overall lower mortality rates in the short term (2-3 years). 2. baby boomers are coming of age .. a baby boom is eventually followed by a death boom. This will drive up the mortality rate long term (5-10 years).

hef19898 5y ago

In Germany wr have evacuatiom flights from Bavaria to Hamburg for example. We had that early in the pandemic from France and Italy to Germany. So yes, there are numbers for sure somewhere.