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> The code outlined a process for enabling new features by verifying cryptographically signed licences This smells a lot like laying the groundwork for locking

by luma 5y ago

> The code outlined a process for enabling new features by verifying cryptographically signed licences This smells a lot like laying the groundwork for locking processor features behind a license key. Get ready for a monthly CPU license plan...

johnchristopher 5y ago
Ahem https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/
- reasonabl_human 5y ago
  Hadn’t seen this before.. and this license key operates at the hardware level, not the OS level? One can’t expect mpeg hw decide to function with arch or nix installed on a raspberry pi instead?
  - pjc50 5y ago
    Hardware level. It's a compromise imposed on the chip builders because the MPEG decoder or part thereof that they're using is subject to patent licensing. So in order to not pay the patent license, it's shipped locked-out. When you pay them a chunk goes back to the licensor (presumably MPEG-LA).
    - colejohnson66 5y ago
      Although the later models have fast enough CPUs to not need the hardware decoding
    - ksec 5y ago
      >(presumably MPEG-LA). MPEG 2 has been patent free since 2018 in US and 2020 worldwide. Along with AAC-LC. They are charging for license key for the usage of that specific decoder block only. i.e The IP of the actual HW decoder, not the codec itself. MPEG 2 and VC1 is so low in complexity you are software decode it with minimal CPU resource on RPi 4.
      - duskwuff 5y ago
        > MPEG 2 has been patent free since 2018 in US and 2020 worldwide. The patents were still active, and the technology was still useful, when the Pi Foundation started selling the license keys in 2012. Nowadays... yeah, they're irrelevant.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      ...and it's already been cracked.
buran77 5y ago
The devil's in the details but if the price is right then this isn't fundamentally worse than any CPU with factory disabled cores. The difference being that you could now pay to unlock the feature instead of buying a whole new CPU. On the other hand if I have no guarantee the license is valid forever and I own it, or that I can use it in any conditions not just with internet connectivity, or it's tied to the rest of the machine, or only until I want to sell my hardware, then it does become fundamentally worse. This might be a new way to enable more flexibility for cloud providers so they can customize each offering without having different sets of hardware, just a license management component. I also see this as something OEMs may be interested in, tiering otherwise identical products could be just a FW switch away, greatly simplifying logistics and manufacturing. OEMs could customize the CPUs they receive while Intel would shrink the number of SKUs. Being Intel though means none of the savings will ever reach the consumer.
- wtallis 5y ago
  Cores that are permanently disabled from the factory help improve yields. Features that can be turned back on later don't, because they still need to pass QA.
  - smachiz 5y ago
    They can also improve monetary yields. On mature processes, the yields are probably higher than demand - cores are being disabled because they have more buyers for a 32 core than a 48 core chip. If they can sell another 16 cores at no incremental cost post sale, that's attractive. As long as it doesn't prevent that customer from buying a whole new 48 core chip from them, anyway.
    - wtallis 5y ago
      When Intel starts disabling cores that are fully functional, then the practice shifts over into the bad column of artificial product segmentation. It may be good for Intel, but it's a problem for consumers. Likewise, features that ship to every customer but can only be turned on by eg. Amazon are worrying for obvious reasons. The only reason why we tolerate such clear signs of market failure is because in the larger picture, Intel et al. need to keep their margins high and consistent to keep Moore's Law alive(ish). Maintaining such a fast pace of progress is probably better for customers in the long run, even if it means getting ripped off in the short term. But without such a benefit to make the tradeoff worthwhile, customers and economic policymakers would be right to be incensed when Intel uses wasteful tactics like disabling defect-free silicon in order to insulate their price sheet from the true supply and demand dynamics of their market.
mrcode007 5y ago
It’s been going on for years. Almost every Intel CPU has a cryptographic key embedded in it. If you get a special license from Intel you get a full unlock which allows you to “get root” on the CPU and have full debug capabilities. This is how UEFI and other low level software get debugged during CPU bring-up for example.
kllrnohj 5y ago
Intel's been doing this for 5 years already: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000030447/memory-and-storage/ssd-software.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... You have to buy some stupid dongle to enable "Intel® Virtual RAID on CPU" feature, and it's like $100 or something silly.

by luma 5y ago

johnchristopher 5y ago

Ahem https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/

reasonabl_human 5y ago
Hadn’t seen this before.. and this license key operates at the hardware level, not the OS level? One can’t expect mpeg hw decide to function with arch or nix installed on a raspberry pi instead?
- pjc50 5y ago
  Hardware level. It's a compromise imposed on the chip builders because the MPEG decoder or part thereof that they're using is subject to patent licensing. So in order to not pay the patent license, it's shipped locked-out. When you pay them a chunk goes back to the licensor (presumably MPEG-LA).
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    Although the later models have fast enough CPUs to not need the hardware decoding
  - ksec 5y ago
    >(presumably MPEG-LA). MPEG 2 has been patent free since 2018 in US and 2020 worldwide. Along with AAC-LC. They are charging for license key for the usage of that specific decoder block only. i.e The IP of the actual HW decoder, not the codec itself. MPEG 2 and VC1 is so low in complexity you are software decode it with minimal CPU resource on RPi 4.
    - duskwuff 5y ago
      > MPEG 2 has been patent free since 2018 in US and 2020 worldwide. The patents were still active, and the technology was still useful, when the Pi Foundation started selling the license keys in 2012. Nowadays... yeah, they're irrelevant.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    ...and it's already been cracked.

buran77 5y ago

The devil's in the details but if the price is right then this isn't fundamentally worse than any CPU with factory disabled cores. The difference being that you could now pay to unlock the feature instead of buying a whole new CPU. On the other hand if I have no guarantee the license is valid forever and I own it, or that I can use it in any conditions not just with internet connectivity, or it's tied to the rest of the machine, or only until I want to sell my hardware, then it does become fundamentally worse. This might be a new way to enable more flexibility for cloud providers so they can customize each offering without having different sets of hardware, just a license management component. I also see this as something OEMs may be interested in, tiering otherwise identical products could be just a FW switch away, greatly simplifying logistics and manufacturing. OEMs could customize the CPUs they receive while Intel would shrink the number of SKUs. Being Intel though means none of the savings will ever reach the consumer.

wtallis 5y ago
Cores that are permanently disabled from the factory help improve yields. Features that can be turned back on later don't, because they still need to pass QA.
- smachiz 5y ago
  They can also improve monetary yields. On mature processes, the yields are probably higher than demand - cores are being disabled because they have more buyers for a 32 core than a 48 core chip. If they can sell another 16 cores at no incremental cost post sale, that's attractive. As long as it doesn't prevent that customer from buying a whole new 48 core chip from them, anyway.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    When Intel starts disabling cores that are fully functional, then the practice shifts over into the bad column of artificial product segmentation. It may be good for Intel, but it's a problem for consumers. Likewise, features that ship to every customer but can only be turned on by eg. Amazon are worrying for obvious reasons. The only reason why we tolerate such clear signs of market failure is because in the larger picture, Intel et al. need to keep their margins high and consistent to keep Moore's Law alive(ish). Maintaining such a fast pace of progress is probably better for customers in the long run, even if it means getting ripped off in the short term. But without such a benefit to make the tradeoff worthwhile, customers and economic policymakers would be right to be incensed when Intel uses wasteful tactics like disabling defect-free silicon in order to insulate their price sheet from the true supply and demand dynamics of their market.

mrcode007 5y ago

It’s been going on for years. Almost every Intel CPU has a cryptographic key embedded in it. If you get a special license from Intel you get a full unlock which allows you to “get root” on the CPU and have full debug capabilities. This is how UEFI and other low level software get debugged during CPU bring-up for example.

kllrnohj 5y ago

Intel's been doing this for 5 years already: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000030447/memory-and-storage/ssd-software.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... You have to buy some stupid dongle to enable "Intel® Virtual RAID on CPU" feature, and it's like $100 or something silly.