4 ms·

Tried Fedora 34 with Intel graphics (multiple machines), Wayland stil reliably caused lockups a few minutes in. I aint touching that with a 10 foot pole anytim

by brnt 5y ago

Tried Fedora 34 with Intel graphics (multiple machines), Wayland stil reliably caused lockups a few minutes in. I aint touching that with a 10 foot pole anytime soon.

dralley 5y ago
>Wayland still reliably caused lockups a few minutes in. How do you know this (that it was wayland)? I have never had a lockup caused by anything other than swapping, across multiple machines with Intel graphics.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Can confirm. Manjaro, clean install on my Intel laptop. Login with wayland, freezes for up to a minute at a time, sometimes it locks up completely. Reboot and login with Xorg. Flawless. Manjaro, clean install on my AMD laptop. Login with wayland. Flawless.
  - boudin 5y ago
    Is it this issue? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/4653 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/4653 Intel tends to break randomly its Linux driver for some of its gpus, it's quite annoying.
    - brnt 5y ago
      Couldn't have been, because those kernels wasn't out yet when I upgraded (shortly after F34 release). I'll happily blame Intel as well, but the point is: I only see this problem with Wayland, sticking to Xorg and it's smooth sailing.
      - boudin 5y ago
        It does sound a lot like GPU hangs and it is hardware specific so it's most likely on the driver side. I had the exact same issue than you had with my igpu a while back (something like 2 years ago), there was a bug in Intel's driver that was causing gpu hangs.
        brnt 5y ago
        The strange thing is that it happened on Intel hardware about 10 years apart. From that I deduced it wouldn't be the driver (and it works flawlessly with Xorg), but maybe Intel's GPU change less over time than I assumed.
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      I think it was earlier this year. I saw some post on HN about Manjaro + Wayland and decided to try it out. In the end I ditched it due to not being able to do screen sharing.
      - boudin 5y ago
        Screensharing is getting there. On firefox it works out of the box. On Slack as well. On chromium it's still hidden behind the flag: chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer On Zoom it's more complicated. For whatever reason it uses gnome's private screenshot API to share screen Now that Gnome secured this API, it's not working at all, even for Gnome users... The web version allows to share the screen, but their web version is really not great.
- brnt 5y ago
  Because switching to Xorg solved it. Distros that use Xorg have no problems. It's what people in r/Fedora suggested.
rwmj 5y ago
I use Intel graphics + Xorg + Fedora 35 and it's all rock-solid. (I doubt Wayland would have been any different in that regard, but I need remote X despite certain people claiming that remote X is a useless appendix that no one still uses).
- pengaru 5y ago
  You can still run XOrg with the old XOrg-accelerated intel driver or modesetting atop KMS, so even staying within Intel+XOrg you can have very different rendering paths. I used to run the XOrg-accelerated stuff as it was faster and used less power on my laptop, but once my machine got new enough for SNA it became too buggy vs. modesetting.
- executesorder66 5y ago
  > but I need remote X despite Can you not do that with XWayland? Genuinely curious. I've never used/needed remote X, so I am not up to date with the capabilities.
  - Conan_Kudo 5y ago
    It works for applications, not the entire desktop. Depending on what the person needs, it may or may not work. There are remote Wayland options, though. I think Waypipe (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe) is one?
    - Liquid_Fire 5y ago
      Does anyone remote their entire desktop via X forwarding? I'm not sure if that is even possible. What would be the advantages over something like Xvnc?
- brnt 5y ago
  Wayland _is_ different, because that combo indeed works fine for me too. It's just strange that Fedora are shipping with an unstable default.
saurik 5y ago
Well, maybe the idea is that it is more stable than Xorg... when used with NVIDIA's proprietary driver.
technofiend 5y ago
When the pandemic started, Zoom only worked on x.org. They've since added Wayland support but googling for it shows the client is still behind on screen sharing. That may just be a harder problem to solve in Wayland without zoom itself acting as a compositor? https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362153-Sharing-your-screen-or-desktop-on-Zoom https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362153-Sharing-... Linux sessions utilizing Wayland can only share an entire desktop or whiteboard. In order to share just a specific application, you will need to launch your Linux session with Xorg instead.
- TingPing 5y ago
  It's not hard, it just is new APIs that require work.
- pimeys 5y ago
  I use OBS Studio and a virtual camera to drive my zoom meetings on wayland/linux. Works very well and you can do all kinds of cool things with it.
- Conan_Kudo 5y ago
  The web-based version of Zoom can do screensharing on Wayland just fine in Mozilla Firefox or Chromium. On Chromium based browsers, you need to turn on PipeWire WebRTC through the chrome flags mechanism (chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer). The Zoom application needs to be adapted to work through the Wayland screencast portal interface to get things working properly (including sharing audio!). I've tried to report this to Zoom, but I'm not enough for them to realize it's a problem... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1359887020554924036 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/135988702055492403... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1404814812903845894 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/140481481290384589... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1446196846548901896 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/144619684654890189... If you (or anyone else here reading this) is a Zoom customer, please file support tickets asking for this to be fixed. I gave them all the technical details on how to fix this at the beginning of this year, so they know what they need to do.
rurban 5y ago
Working since FC32 with an AMDGPU on Wayland fine. Much better than my previous Nvidia/Debian desktop. I wont touch any nvidia nor x.org with a 10ft pole anymore.
1_player 5y ago
I'm on F35, RX 6800 XT @ 4k and Wayland hasn't caused any issue yet. Gaming works great as well. I love how smooth it feels.

by brnt 5y ago

Tried Fedora 34 with Intel graphics (multiple machines), Wayland stil reliably caused lockups a few minutes in. I aint touching that with a 10 foot pole anytime soon.

dralley 5y ago

>Wayland still reliably caused lockups a few minutes in. How do you know this (that it was wayland)? I have never had a lockup caused by anything other than swapping, across multiple machines with Intel graphics.

philliphaydon 5y ago
Can confirm. Manjaro, clean install on my Intel laptop. Login with wayland, freezes for up to a minute at a time, sometimes it locks up completely. Reboot and login with Xorg. Flawless. Manjaro, clean install on my AMD laptop. Login with wayland. Flawless.
- boudin 5y ago
  Is it this issue? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/4653 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/4653 Intel tends to break randomly its Linux driver for some of its gpus, it's quite annoying.
  - brnt 5y ago
    Couldn't have been, because those kernels wasn't out yet when I upgraded (shortly after F34 release). I'll happily blame Intel as well, but the point is: I only see this problem with Wayland, sticking to Xorg and it's smooth sailing.
    - boudin 5y ago
      It does sound a lot like GPU hangs and it is hardware specific so it's most likely on the driver side. I had the exact same issue than you had with my igpu a while back (something like 2 years ago), there was a bug in Intel's driver that was causing gpu hangs.
      - brnt 5y ago
        The strange thing is that it happened on Intel hardware about 10 years apart. From that I deduced it wouldn't be the driver (and it works flawlessly with Xorg), but maybe Intel's GPU change less over time than I assumed.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    I think it was earlier this year. I saw some post on HN about Manjaro + Wayland and decided to try it out. In the end I ditched it due to not being able to do screen sharing.
    - boudin 5y ago
      Screensharing is getting there. On firefox it works out of the box. On Slack as well. On chromium it's still hidden behind the flag: chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer On Zoom it's more complicated. For whatever reason it uses gnome's private screenshot API to share screen Now that Gnome secured this API, it's not working at all, even for Gnome users... The web version allows to share the screen, but their web version is really not great.
brnt 5y ago
Because switching to Xorg solved it. Distros that use Xorg have no problems. It's what people in r/Fedora suggested.

rwmj 5y ago

I use Intel graphics + Xorg + Fedora 35 and it's all rock-solid. (I doubt Wayland would have been any different in that regard, but I need remote X despite certain people claiming that remote X is a useless appendix that no one still uses).

pengaru 5y ago
You can still run XOrg with the old XOrg-accelerated intel driver or modesetting atop KMS, so even staying within Intel+XOrg you can have very different rendering paths. I used to run the XOrg-accelerated stuff as it was faster and used less power on my laptop, but once my machine got new enough for SNA it became too buggy vs. modesetting.
executesorder66 5y ago
> but I need remote X despite Can you not do that with XWayland? Genuinely curious. I've never used/needed remote X, so I am not up to date with the capabilities.
- Conan_Kudo 5y ago
  It works for applications, not the entire desktop. Depending on what the person needs, it may or may not work. There are remote Wayland options, though. I think Waypipe (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe) is one?
  - Liquid_Fire 5y ago
    Does anyone remote their entire desktop via X forwarding? I'm not sure if that is even possible. What would be the advantages over something like Xvnc?
brnt 5y ago
Wayland _is_ different, because that combo indeed works fine for me too. It's just strange that Fedora are shipping with an unstable default.

saurik 5y ago

Well, maybe the idea is that it is more stable than Xorg... when used with NVIDIA's proprietary driver.

technofiend 5y ago

When the pandemic started, Zoom only worked on x.org. They've since added Wayland support but googling for it shows the client is still behind on screen sharing. That may just be a harder problem to solve in Wayland without zoom itself acting as a compositor? https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362153-Sharing-your-screen-or-desktop-on-Zoom https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362153-Sharing-... Linux sessions utilizing Wayland can only share an entire desktop or whiteboard. In order to share just a specific application, you will need to launch your Linux session with Xorg instead.

TingPing 5y ago
It's not hard, it just is new APIs that require work.
pimeys 5y ago
I use OBS Studio and a virtual camera to drive my zoom meetings on wayland/linux. Works very well and you can do all kinds of cool things with it.
Conan_Kudo 5y ago
The web-based version of Zoom can do screensharing on Wayland just fine in Mozilla Firefox or Chromium. On Chromium based browsers, you need to turn on PipeWire WebRTC through the chrome flags mechanism (chrome://flags/#enable-webrtc-pipewire-capturer). The Zoom application needs to be adapted to work through the Wayland screencast portal interface to get things working properly (including sharing audio!). I've tried to report this to Zoom, but I'm not enough for them to realize it's a problem... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1359887020554924036 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/135988702055492403... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1404814812903845894 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/140481481290384589... * https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/1446196846548901896 https://twitter.com/Det_Conan_Kudo/status/144619684654890189... If you (or anyone else here reading this) is a Zoom customer, please file support tickets asking for this to be fixed. I gave them all the technical details on how to fix this at the beginning of this year, so they know what they need to do.

rurban 5y ago

Working since FC32 with an AMDGPU on Wayland fine. Much better than my previous Nvidia/Debian desktop. I wont touch any nvidia nor x.org with a 10ft pole anymore.

1_player 5y ago

I'm on F35, RX 6800 XT @ 4k and Wayland hasn't caused any issue yet. Gaming works great as well. I love how smooth it feels.