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No, parent was right, your comment lacks all substance. It supposes that 'the rich' simply hoard wealth like a mythical dragon in a cave, scrooge mcducking thro

No, parent was right, your comment lacks all substance. It supposes that 'the rich' simply hoard wealth like a mythical dragon in a cave, scrooge mcducking through it while the poor, tired masses starve to death. The truth is that they conserve their wealth by investing it, which means that money recirculates into the economy to provide for the continued prosperity of others. If they just sat on their money they'd actually lose out as their money becomes less valuable through inflation. The one objection that truly matters in this scenario (and it's one you haven't raised) is that some people get a bailout when their investments fail, and others don't. That's the real problem. As long as intelligence is normally distributed and there is pressure against all to regress to the mean then malinvestment will occur and ultimately result in 'the rich' becoming 'not rich'. If, however, someone puts their finger on the scale and effectively ensures that the stupid-rich (literally) can't lose then the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Solution: Stop doing that.

rbanffy 5y ago
> If, however, someone puts their finger on the scale and effectively ensures that the stupid-rich (literally) can't lose then the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Solution: Stop doing that. When we get to the point money is easily converted in political power, you can see not only the finger tipping the scale, but a whole foot firmly planted there. Good luck convincing the rich, who actually convinced themselves they earned their money fairly, to stop doing it.
- EarlKing 5y ago
  Convincing the rich to stop tipping the scale is about as likely as convincing people that "eat the rich" is not an actual solution to the problem. Both are rooted in hatred and ignorance, and neither will actually lead to justice.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    Indeed. The rich are too fatty and that may create health issues. Also, their biomass is insufficient to sustain the poor population. We missed the opportunity of making them useful this way.
- bottled_poe 5y ago
  > When we get to the point money is easily converted in political power If only we demanded mechanisms which might disincentivise this. Alas, we are but plebes.
romwell 5y ago
>The truth is that they conserve their wealth by investing it, which means that money recirculates into the economy to provide for the continued prosperity of others. I know asking to read the article is too much, but maybe read the title? Also, is the word "offshore" not in your vocabulary? Otherwise agreed. Bailouts, of course, are atrocious. Investment should be a risk. Speaking of which, reminder: bankruptcy doesn't clear away student loans, making them an effectively risk-free investment for the banks. Yay.
- EarlKing 5y ago
  > I know asking to read the article is too much, but maybe read the title? There's nothing in the article that actually refutes the notion of trickle-down economics. It is little more than a summary of a summary of the actual report[1]. The actual report is even worse than the summary when you dig into it. For example, the report notes on page 63 that taxes and transfers did nothing to change inequality. That's precisely what you'd expect in an economy where labor is specialized to produce different things, with some producing greater value, and some producing lesser. Increasing taxes doesn't change that fact. It's also what you'd expect from some populations having greater literacy and education than others, and greater infrastructure to facilitate investment and trade. Taxes won't change that. Investment will. As a further example, page 168 "Lessons from failed trickle-down economics" falsely claims that when taxes were reduced, GDP growth did not increase, pointing to the period of the 1980s which was in the middle of the dot-com boom. This is a sleight-of-hand on their part where they use figures showing a lack of growth in GDP per capita and attempt to imply this means there was no GDP growth whatsoever. However, GDP in that period did in fact increase, as did the population. The real point of this report lays further in where they finally drop the mask and begin discussing "global redistribution" and "ending center-periphery imbalances" between the "Global North" and "Global South". Put simply: This entire report is agitprop intended to convince people that because some people dodged their taxes in the 1980s-2020s period that means we should all accept "redistribution" to even things out... except, of course, they're not talking about tax evaders having to pay their fair share, but rather justifying theft from those who produce the real value in the world. This is nothing more than a sham attempt to legitimize greed and theft. > Also, is the word "offshore" not in your vocabulary? Moving money offshore and not paying taxes on it because it's still technically not "earned", and hence not their money, is certainly a problem... but the solution then is to treat that money as earned and subject to taxation immediately, even if you have to take out a loan against that money which you haven't really received yet. That said, the money sitting offshore isn't just sitting there: it's invested. > Speaking of which, reminder: bankruptcy doesn't clear away student loans, making them an effectively risk-free investment for the banks. Yay. Ah yes, how dare those banks invest in your future. They should've spent it all on hookers and blow in Vegas. Clearly that's a better investment. :D [1] https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_FullReport.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq...
sharemywin 5y ago
and if by intelligence you mean paid engineering staff and sales and marketing skill then I fully agree with your statement. Which in my view is the main driver of wealth in this world. laying out a persuasive argument and while withholding facts that materially relevant to the transaction to fool individuals without the time, resources or expertise to deal with the transaction.

rbanffy 5y ago

> If, however, someone puts their finger on the scale and effectively ensures that the stupid-rich (literally) can't lose then the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Solution: Stop doing that. When we get to the point money is easily converted in political power, you can see not only the finger tipping the scale, but a whole foot firmly planted there. Good luck convincing the rich, who actually convinced themselves they earned their money fairly, to stop doing it.

EarlKing 5y ago
Convincing the rich to stop tipping the scale is about as likely as convincing people that "eat the rich" is not an actual solution to the problem. Both are rooted in hatred and ignorance, and neither will actually lead to justice.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  Indeed. The rich are too fatty and that may create health issues. Also, their biomass is insufficient to sustain the poor population. We missed the opportunity of making them useful this way.
bottled_poe 5y ago
> When we get to the point money is easily converted in political power If only we demanded mechanisms which might disincentivise this. Alas, we are but plebes.

romwell 5y ago

>The truth is that they conserve their wealth by investing it, which means that money recirculates into the economy to provide for the continued prosperity of others. I know asking to read the article is too much, but maybe read the title? Also, is the word "offshore" not in your vocabulary? Otherwise agreed. Bailouts, of course, are atrocious. Investment should be a risk. Speaking of which, reminder: bankruptcy doesn't clear away student loans, making them an effectively risk-free investment for the banks. Yay.

EarlKing 5y ago
> I know asking to read the article is too much, but maybe read the title? There's nothing in the article that actually refutes the notion of trickle-down economics. It is little more than a summary of a summary of the actual report[1]. The actual report is even worse than the summary when you dig into it. For example, the report notes on page 63 that taxes and transfers did nothing to change inequality. That's precisely what you'd expect in an economy where labor is specialized to produce different things, with some producing greater value, and some producing lesser. Increasing taxes doesn't change that fact. It's also what you'd expect from some populations having greater literacy and education than others, and greater infrastructure to facilitate investment and trade. Taxes won't change that. Investment will. As a further example, page 168 "Lessons from failed trickle-down economics" falsely claims that when taxes were reduced, GDP growth did not increase, pointing to the period of the 1980s which was in the middle of the dot-com boom. This is a sleight-of-hand on their part where they use figures showing a lack of growth in GDP per capita and attempt to imply this means there was no GDP growth whatsoever. However, GDP in that period did in fact increase, as did the population. The real point of this report lays further in where they finally drop the mask and begin discussing "global redistribution" and "ending center-periphery imbalances" between the "Global North" and "Global South". Put simply: This entire report is agitprop intended to convince people that because some people dodged their taxes in the 1980s-2020s period that means we should all accept "redistribution" to even things out... except, of course, they're not talking about tax evaders having to pay their fair share, but rather justifying theft from those who produce the real value in the world. This is nothing more than a sham attempt to legitimize greed and theft. > Also, is the word "offshore" not in your vocabulary? Moving money offshore and not paying taxes on it because it's still technically not "earned", and hence not their money, is certainly a problem... but the solution then is to treat that money as earned and subject to taxation immediately, even if you have to take out a loan against that money which you haven't really received yet. That said, the money sitting offshore isn't just sitting there: it's invested. > Speaking of which, reminder: bankruptcy doesn't clear away student loans, making them an effectively risk-free investment for the banks. Yay. Ah yes, how dare those banks invest in your future. They should've spent it all on hookers and blow in Vegas. Clearly that's a better investment. :D [1] https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_FullReport.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq...

sharemywin 5y ago

and if by intelligence you mean paid engineering staff and sales and marketing skill then I fully agree with your statement. Which in my view is the main driver of wealth in this world. laying out a persuasive argument and while withholding facts that materially relevant to the transaction to fool individuals without the time, resources or expertise to deal with the transaction.