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I started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?

vermilingua 5y ago
It does, but IMO it's probably worth reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons before it anyway. With the exception of perhaps Surface Detail, none of the Culture books rely on any others. Consider Phlebas gives a good view of The Culture from "outside" (the perspective of the Idrians) but is quite slow.
- DylanSp 5y ago
  I mean, Player of Games has a pretty slow start too. I love that book, but the initial pacing is IMO its biggest flaw. I know Use of Weapons doesn't depend on any of the other books for its plot, but is it a decent intro to the setting? If it is, that's where I'd recommend starting.
  - hesperiidae 5y ago
    Yeah, it does take its time to build up, but in my opinion that just lays a stronger foundation for the latter half(-ish) of the book. Use of Weapons is more than a decent intro, but I'd still personally recommend The Player of Games since it isn't as deep and heavy in comparison, and the narrative structure is simpler. Of course, YMMV, but I started with TPoG, and reading UoW right after it was absolutely fantastic. I guess my biggest concern with recommending UoW as the starter would be that it might diminish TPoG, which I'm fond of, but I don't know if it actually would, since they're connected pretty much only bound by the setting.
  - avemg 5y ago
    I've read (in order) Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and Excession thus far. Use of Weapons was the toughest one for me to get through so far. I started it and stopped it a few times over several years and just couldn't get past the halfway point. I eventually got over the hump with it and devour the last half of the book over a couple of days (which is fast for me). So for my money, Use of Weapons is a bad starting point. My favorite by far is Excession but I don't know that I'd start there. I think the payoff of getting a story from the perspective of the Minds is better appreciated after you've heard about them and their capabilities from a distance in the preceding books. My pick would be to start with Player of Games. That's the one that was a page turner for me nearly from the jump.
smiley1437 5y ago
If you find Consider Phlebas too slow, try Excession before giving up on Banks.
- speed_spread 5y ago
  Eeh, Excession is very good but a still bit hermetic for an introduction to the Culture. It's the only other book I wouldn't recommend as a first along with Consider Phlebas.
apetersonBFI 5y ago
Consider Pheblas wasn't the best in my opinion. Player of Games is my favorite, but some of the other later ones are good. I enjoy the settings and the concept of the Culture more than the plotlines.
- hesperiidae 5y ago
  The Player of Games is my favourite exactly for the same reason: it explores the Culture in contrast to the Empire, and even the drama is just an expression of the clash between the two structures.
gman83 5y ago
I couldn't get through the cannibal part of Consider Phlebas, was soo weird.
- wiredfool 5y ago
  There's one scene or so in each one of his books that's just too much for me. I just don't need to donate brainspace to that sort of thing. (Use of Weapons has one, Song of Stone too.) I like 80% of his work, 15% is a pointless depressing slog, and the other 5% is just too much for me.
  - bewaretheirs 5y ago
    That confirms my decision to abandon reading the series after I hit a spot like that in Player.
- DylanSp 5y ago
  Yeah, that was just...out-of-nowhere gruesomeness.
- wishinghand 5y ago
  I guess I just took it as another possibility in a society of nearly infinite ones. I did use material from that encounter in running a horror RPG, so in a way I'm kind of thankful for it.
sidibe 5y ago
Use of Weapons and Consider Phlebas are the worst of the series IMO. I powered through Consider Phloebus just because I knew people loved the series, but there's really no reason to start there
- arethuza 5y ago
  Personally, I think Use of Weapons is by far the best of the Culture series - although I admit it took a few readings for me to get to that view...
  - User23 5y ago
    He does a really good job exploring the theme "what is a weapon?"
    - hesperiidae 5y ago
      Yes! And also, "why is a weapon?", "how is a weapon?" and "what isn't a weapon?" Really, Culture is a great setting for discussing a lot of interesting philosophical questions and topics.
- rishav_sharan 5y ago
  Sacrilege! Taste is subjective, but Use of Weapons, imo, is Banks best work. I personally consider it one of the best SciFi, period. It's been years I last read it, but that ending still gives me shivers whenever I think of it
- NoGravitas 5y ago
  Use of Weapons is generally considered one of the best, but it has a complex narrative structure that makes it a harder read, and it's probably not a good place to start.
gpderetta 5y ago
I enjoyed Consider Phlebas a lot, but it is very different from the rest of the series.
dgritsko 5y ago
I started with Consider Phlebas because I wanted to see why people raved about the Culture series. I found it kind of tedious and slow, and although I finished it, I wondered what all the hype was about. I'm thankful that I picked up the second book though (Player of Games) - because I couldn't put it down; it was fantastic. I've stuck with the series since then (Excession was another highlight). I'd would like to revisit Consider Phlebas at some point, I think I might enjoy it more now that I have more context for the story.
baq 5y ago
Consider Phlebas is easily the worst of the series. My top 3 in no particular order are Use of Weapons, Player of Games and Excession.
- DylanSp 5y ago
  Curious that you put Consider Phlebas behind Matter (my least favorite, by far). My favorite is probably Look to Windward, closely followed by Player of Games and Use of Weapons.

It does, but IMO it's probably worth reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons before it anyway. With the exception of perhaps Surface Detail, none of the Culture books rely on any others. Consider Phlebas gives a good view of The Culture from "outside" (the perspective of the Idrians) but is quite slow.

DylanSp 5y ago
I mean, Player of Games has a pretty slow start too. I love that book, but the initial pacing is IMO its biggest flaw. I know Use of Weapons doesn't depend on any of the other books for its plot, but is it a decent intro to the setting? If it is, that's where I'd recommend starting.
- hesperiidae 5y ago
  Yeah, it does take its time to build up, but in my opinion that just lays a stronger foundation for the latter half(-ish) of the book. Use of Weapons is more than a decent intro, but I'd still personally recommend The Player of Games since it isn't as deep and heavy in comparison, and the narrative structure is simpler. Of course, YMMV, but I started with TPoG, and reading UoW right after it was absolutely fantastic. I guess my biggest concern with recommending UoW as the starter would be that it might diminish TPoG, which I'm fond of, but I don't know if it actually would, since they're connected pretty much only bound by the setting.
- avemg 5y ago
  I've read (in order) Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and Excession thus far. Use of Weapons was the toughest one for me to get through so far. I started it and stopped it a few times over several years and just couldn't get past the halfway point. I eventually got over the hump with it and devour the last half of the book over a couple of days (which is fast for me). So for my money, Use of Weapons is a bad starting point. My favorite by far is Excession but I don't know that I'd start there. I think the payoff of getting a story from the perspective of the Minds is better appreciated after you've heard about them and their capabilities from a distance in the preceding books. My pick would be to start with Player of Games. That's the one that was a page turner for me nearly from the jump.

smiley1437 5y ago

If you find Consider Phlebas too slow, try Excession before giving up on Banks.

speed_spread 5y ago
Eeh, Excession is very good but a still bit hermetic for an introduction to the Culture. It's the only other book I wouldn't recommend as a first along with Consider Phlebas.

apetersonBFI 5y ago

Consider Pheblas wasn't the best in my opinion. Player of Games is my favorite, but some of the other later ones are good. I enjoy the settings and the concept of the Culture more than the plotlines.

hesperiidae 5y ago
The Player of Games is my favourite exactly for the same reason: it explores the Culture in contrast to the Empire, and even the drama is just an expression of the clash between the two structures.

gman83 5y ago

I couldn't get through the cannibal part of Consider Phlebas, was soo weird.

wiredfool 5y ago
There's one scene or so in each one of his books that's just too much for me. I just don't need to donate brainspace to that sort of thing. (Use of Weapons has one, Song of Stone too.) I like 80% of his work, 15% is a pointless depressing slog, and the other 5% is just too much for me.
- bewaretheirs 5y ago
  That confirms my decision to abandon reading the series after I hit a spot like that in Player.
DylanSp 5y ago
Yeah, that was just...out-of-nowhere gruesomeness.
wishinghand 5y ago
I guess I just took it as another possibility in a society of nearly infinite ones. I did use material from that encounter in running a horror RPG, so in a way I'm kind of thankful for it.

sidibe 5y ago

Use of Weapons and Consider Phlebas are the worst of the series IMO. I powered through Consider Phloebus just because I knew people loved the series, but there's really no reason to start there

arethuza 5y ago
Personally, I think Use of Weapons is by far the best of the Culture series - although I admit it took a few readings for me to get to that view...
- User23 5y ago
  He does a really good job exploring the theme "what is a weapon?"
  - hesperiidae 5y ago
    Yes! And also, "why is a weapon?", "how is a weapon?" and "what isn't a weapon?" Really, Culture is a great setting for discussing a lot of interesting philosophical questions and topics.
rishav_sharan 5y ago
Sacrilege! Taste is subjective, but Use of Weapons, imo, is Banks best work. I personally consider it one of the best SciFi, period. It's been years I last read it, but that ending still gives me shivers whenever I think of it
NoGravitas 5y ago
Use of Weapons is generally considered one of the best, but it has a complex narrative structure that makes it a harder read, and it's probably not a good place to start.

gpderetta 5y ago

I enjoyed Consider Phlebas a lot, but it is very different from the rest of the series.

dgritsko 5y ago

I started with Consider Phlebas because I wanted to see why people raved about the Culture series. I found it kind of tedious and slow, and although I finished it, I wondered what all the hype was about. I'm thankful that I picked up the second book though (Player of Games) - because I couldn't put it down; it was fantastic. I've stuck with the series since then (Excession was another highlight). I'd would like to revisit Consider Phlebas at some point, I think I might enjoy it more now that I have more context for the story.

baq 5y ago

Consider Phlebas is easily the worst of the series. My top 3 in no particular order are Use of Weapons, Player of Games and Excession.

DylanSp 5y ago
Curious that you put Consider Phlebas behind Matter (my least favorite, by far). My favorite is probably Look to Windward, closely followed by Player of Games and Use of Weapons.