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> With messaging inherently you are trying to share with others. If you’re sharing why stop saving? Some others, not all. Otherwise, tell me the point of all

> With messaging inherently you are trying to share with others. If you’re sharing why stop saving? Some others, not all. Otherwise, tell me the point of all the effort that has gone into products like Signal, protocols like TLS etc.

endisneigh 5y ago
There’s really no connection (no pun intended) between this and TLS. With signal the same criticism applies.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  The connection is simple in my eyes: > With messaging inherently you are trying to share with others. If you’re sharing why stop saving? When sending packages to the Internet you are inherently trying to share with others. If you're sending, why stop receiving?
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    > When sending packages to the Internet you are inherently trying to share with others. If you're sending, why stop receiving? Except this isn’t the analogous situation. TLS is more like three people in a room, one of which cannot be removed, and you want to say something to one person without the other person hearing. Ultimately the person who the message is intended for can do whatever they want with the message. If all chat communication was public in a single thread I’d agree with you.
- zo1 5y ago
  If by TLS you mean the whole encryption and signing of http content etc, then I would argue it's the same. The purpose is to have an immutable and untamperable pipeline of data straight from the "server" to your "eyeballs". The cat definitely came out of the bag with tech enabling so much that was difficult in the real-world, and now they're busy scrambling to put it back, and I would argue, using "privacy" and "safety" as a Trojan horse. Edit. Side note seeing as I don't think I 100% addressed your point. If we allow data to be viewed, and relayed with the potential for altering, then they no longer have 100% control over the content being changed/recorded. So viewing and sharing (with potential edits) is akin to tampering with the pipeline. Sharing is not at issue, it's you being able to intercept and have control over the data on your device. Now I'll go scurry off and take my tin-foil hat off for the day.
deleted 5y ago
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endisneigh 5y ago

There’s really no connection (no pun intended) between this and TLS. With signal the same criticism applies.

skinkestek 5y ago
The connection is simple in my eyes: > With messaging inherently you are trying to share with others. If you’re sharing why stop saving? When sending packages to the Internet you are inherently trying to share with others. If you're sending, why stop receiving?
- endisneigh 5y ago
  > When sending packages to the Internet you are inherently trying to share with others. If you're sending, why stop receiving? Except this isn’t the analogous situation. TLS is more like three people in a room, one of which cannot be removed, and you want to say something to one person without the other person hearing. Ultimately the person who the message is intended for can do whatever they want with the message. If all chat communication was public in a single thread I’d agree with you.
zo1 5y ago
If by TLS you mean the whole encryption and signing of http content etc, then I would argue it's the same. The purpose is to have an immutable and untamperable pipeline of data straight from the "server" to your "eyeballs". The cat definitely came out of the bag with tech enabling so much that was difficult in the real-world, and now they're busy scrambling to put it back, and I would argue, using "privacy" and "safety" as a Trojan horse. Edit. Side note seeing as I don't think I 100% addressed your point. If we allow data to be viewed, and relayed with the potential for altering, then they no longer have 100% control over the content being changed/recorded. So viewing and sharing (with potential edits) is akin to tampering with the pipeline. Sharing is not at issue, it's you being able to intercept and have control over the data on your device. Now I'll go scurry off and take my tin-foil hat off for the day.

deleted 5y ago

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