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So, "Privacy by obscurity"? Who thought that was a good idea? And how do they plan to restrict screenshots on iOS anyway? This is wrong on so many levels. If so

So, "Privacy by obscurity"? Who thought that was a good idea? And how do they plan to restrict screenshots on iOS anyway? This is wrong on so many levels. If someone has access to a material on their own device, Telegeam can only make it inconvenient (but not impossible) to save/forward content, and since it's not real privacy, this only makes people to move away from Telegram to, say, Discord or alternatives, just as me and many others around did. Good move Telegram. This is how you ruin your otherwise-great platform.

ushakov 5y ago
> This is how you ruin your otherwise-great platform They already ruined it with ads
- mimsee 5y ago
  Not a telegram user so I'm interested in how are the ads displayed? Like banner ads?
  - ushakov 5y ago
    Like chat messages https://promote.telegram.org https://promote.telegram.org
    - pizza234 5y ago
      > Sponsored messages on Telegram are displayed in large public one-to-many channels with 1000+ subscribers and are limited to 160 characters. Sponsored Messages are based solely on the topic of the public channels in which they are shown. It's a stretch to define Telegram as "ruined by ads"; this policy seems a reasonable compromise to monetize the product. The "famous competitor"'s way of monetizing is considerably more harmful, IMO.
      - JohnWhigham 5y ago
        Lol, have people learned nothing watching software in the past decade? It always starts with the innocuous "oh don't worry, this is very limited and only a select group of people will be exposed to it!" line
        FemmeAndroid 5y ago
        Personally, I feel like I’ve seen just as much, if not more software I value ruined by it failing to afford to keep the lights on.
        throwaway2048 5y ago
        you might even say most software is ruined by NOT having ads, I wish everything had even more ads, I say!
        pizza234 5y ago
        If one actually watches, instead of making rhetorical arguments, they'll observe that there are different types of products, and one can't make a generalized statement. Windows for example, is expanding their ad-base, even if they have a base revenue due to the product being sold, so it's reasonable to present a slippery slope argument. Ubuntu is not (directly) sold, yet, they've removed the ads (Amazon sponsored searches). Android products have different dynamics - differently from O/S, the cost of switch is considerably lower; users do complain/act when advertisement becomes too invasive, so there is a balancing force. This balancing force applies also to messaging apps, so the slippery slope argument is not realistic. See the significant number of users who switched to Telegram when WhatsApp was sold to Facebook, or when they changed the privacy rules. I don't know how many users expect to freeload messaging apps (that is, to expect that apps don't monetize metadata or ads or not to directly sell the product). I have heard people complainints about Whatsapp's privacy invasion rather than Telegram's advertising (as a matter of fact, I guess that none of the people I know has ever seen a Telegram ad). In this specific case, paradoxically ads are less dangerous, because the cost to the user is overt, as opposed to metadata (ab)use, which is covert.
  - Daunk 5y ago
    You won't see them in private messages. It's only in some big public channels that people can promote their posts as "ads".
    - afiori 5y ago
      can channels opt-out of having ads?
- Daunk 5y ago
  I've used Telegram for years, I'm part of about 20 groups and over 40 channels, and I have NEVER seen an ad. You won't ever see an "ad" unless you're part of huge channels, and then people can promote their posts as "ads".
jacobmischka 5y ago
Inconvenience is often good enough. This isn't intended for state secrets, based on the language it's intended for "creators" to "protect the content they publish on Telegram". Obviously any platform can't completely prevent copying works, that's how piracy exists, and always will. If I were an artist I would prefer a platform that at least made it slightly more onerous to copy my things with high quality. A photo of a phone is worth effectively nothing in this context. This seems like a fine change, people on HN just like to be angry.
- nixpulvis 5y ago
  "Inconvenience as a feature" perfectly sums up the state of the tech world right now.
  - afiori 5y ago
    inconvenience for abusers is a great feature indeed
    - nixpulvis 5y ago
      Use is abuse now? Actually, I almost agree with that!
      - afiori 5y ago
        To ab-use something you genereally need to be using that thing. It is impossible to prevent abuse, but it is necessary to contain it.
- GeckoEidechse 5y ago
  The issue though is that this will give the sender of a message the impression that what they are sharing will stay private, even though there are from a technical standpoint no such guarantees.
  - jacobmischka 5y ago
Terretta 5y ago
> ”If someone has access to a material on their own device, Telegeam can only make it inconvenient (but not impossible) to save/forward content…” Is this effectively true for media? Key concept is democratizing DRM. You as a digital person having digital rights and letting you manage them. Consider Netflix on iOS devices. Now consider if OnlyFans creators could have the same effective guarantees. Might they not adopt Telegram in droves?
- nyuszika7h 5y ago
  Media DRM is not infallible either. Sure, it's a lot more inconvenient than a feature that simply blocks screenshots, but even the most secure hardware DRM used on Netflix, Amazon Prime Video etc. is regularly cracked, the methods are just not public. (Though they usually attack Google's Widevine DRM rather than Apple's FairPlay.)
quaintdev 5y ago
> this only makes people to move away from Telegram to, say, Discord or alternatives I simply do not understand why people are even thinking of moving to another closed platform like Discord. We already have an alternative and I think it's time to embrace it: Matrix
- hLsvZHKd 5y ago
  Matrix is good in theory but its UI is still confusing. I'm also bitter that my old account that was closed a long time ago cannot be retrieved or reset, which means that I cannot use my phone number again (it's stuck forever to the closed account).
  - quaintdev 5y ago
    What are you talking about? You do not need phone number. I self host matrix instance and all I did was create username and passwords for people I know and shared with them. They then logged in and changed their passwords. At no point the sign up workflow asked for phone number. Also, the UI has improved a lot recently. There are number of matrix clients that have appeared on app stores but I still prefer Element which gets regular updates and features.
    - pferde 5y ago
      You don't even need to create usernames/passwords in advance - you can just send your friends custom one-time URLs, which will allow them to enter their own desired usernames and passwords. https://zeratax.github.io/matrix-registration/ https://zeratax.github.io/matrix-registration/
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - gefhfff 5y ago
    Matrix itself has as much as an UI as Email (even less)
  - johnisgood 5y ago
mihcsab 5y ago
you can use scrcpy for android screenshots
- iggldiggl 5y ago
  Not on Android 12 any more, though (that is scrcpy as such still works, but it's no longer able to mirror "secure" apps).
nyuszika7h 5y ago
> And how do they plan to restrict screenshots on iOS anyway? iOS doesn't have the same system as Android that fully blocks screenshots within the app, but they can obscure part of the screen when taking a screenshot.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

ushakov 5y ago

> This is how you ruin your otherwise-great platform They already ruined it with ads

mimsee 5y ago
Not a telegram user so I'm interested in how are the ads displayed? Like banner ads?
- ushakov 5y ago
  Like chat messages https://promote.telegram.org https://promote.telegram.org
  - pizza234 5y ago
    > Sponsored messages on Telegram are displayed in large public one-to-many channels with 1000+ subscribers and are limited to 160 characters. Sponsored Messages are based solely on the topic of the public channels in which they are shown. It's a stretch to define Telegram as "ruined by ads"; this policy seems a reasonable compromise to monetize the product. The "famous competitor"'s way of monetizing is considerably more harmful, IMO.
    - JohnWhigham 5y ago
      Lol, have people learned nothing watching software in the past decade? It always starts with the innocuous "oh don't worry, this is very limited and only a select group of people will be exposed to it!" line
      - FemmeAndroid 5y ago
        Personally, I feel like I’ve seen just as much, if not more software I value ruined by it failing to afford to keep the lights on.
        throwaway2048 5y ago
        you might even say most software is ruined by NOT having ads, I wish everything had even more ads, I say!
      - pizza234 5y ago
        If one actually watches, instead of making rhetorical arguments, they'll observe that there are different types of products, and one can't make a generalized statement. Windows for example, is expanding their ad-base, even if they have a base revenue due to the product being sold, so it's reasonable to present a slippery slope argument. Ubuntu is not (directly) sold, yet, they've removed the ads (Amazon sponsored searches). Android products have different dynamics - differently from O/S, the cost of switch is considerably lower; users do complain/act when advertisement becomes too invasive, so there is a balancing force. This balancing force applies also to messaging apps, so the slippery slope argument is not realistic. See the significant number of users who switched to Telegram when WhatsApp was sold to Facebook, or when they changed the privacy rules. I don't know how many users expect to freeload messaging apps (that is, to expect that apps don't monetize metadata or ads or not to directly sell the product). I have heard people complainints about Whatsapp's privacy invasion rather than Telegram's advertising (as a matter of fact, I guess that none of the people I know has ever seen a Telegram ad). In this specific case, paradoxically ads are less dangerous, because the cost to the user is overt, as opposed to metadata (ab)use, which is covert.
- Daunk 5y ago
  You won't see them in private messages. It's only in some big public channels that people can promote their posts as "ads".
  - afiori 5y ago
    can channels opt-out of having ads?
Daunk 5y ago
I've used Telegram for years, I'm part of about 20 groups and over 40 channels, and I have NEVER seen an ad. You won't ever see an "ad" unless you're part of huge channels, and then people can promote their posts as "ads".

jacobmischka 5y ago

Inconvenience is often good enough. This isn't intended for state secrets, based on the language it's intended for "creators" to "protect the content they publish on Telegram". Obviously any platform can't completely prevent copying works, that's how piracy exists, and always will. If I were an artist I would prefer a platform that at least made it slightly more onerous to copy my things with high quality. A photo of a phone is worth effectively nothing in this context. This seems like a fine change, people on HN just like to be angry.

nixpulvis 5y ago
"Inconvenience as a feature" perfectly sums up the state of the tech world right now.
- afiori 5y ago
  inconvenience for abusers is a great feature indeed
  - nixpulvis 5y ago
    Use is abuse now? Actually, I almost agree with that!
    - afiori 5y ago
      To ab-use something you genereally need to be using that thing. It is impossible to prevent abuse, but it is necessary to contain it.
GeckoEidechse 5y ago
The issue though is that this will give the sender of a message the impression that what they are sharing will stay private, even though there are from a technical standpoint no such guarantees.
- jacobmischka 5y ago

Terretta 5y ago

> ”If someone has access to a material on their own device, Telegeam can only make it inconvenient (but not impossible) to save/forward content…” Is this effectively true for media? Key concept is democratizing DRM. You as a digital person having digital rights and letting you manage them. Consider Netflix on iOS devices. Now consider if OnlyFans creators could have the same effective guarantees. Might they not adopt Telegram in droves?

nyuszika7h 5y ago
Media DRM is not infallible either. Sure, it's a lot more inconvenient than a feature that simply blocks screenshots, but even the most secure hardware DRM used on Netflix, Amazon Prime Video etc. is regularly cracked, the methods are just not public. (Though they usually attack Google's Widevine DRM rather than Apple's FairPlay.)

quaintdev 5y ago

> this only makes people to move away from Telegram to, say, Discord or alternatives I simply do not understand why people are even thinking of moving to another closed platform like Discord. We already have an alternative and I think it's time to embrace it: Matrix

hLsvZHKd 5y ago
Matrix is good in theory but its UI is still confusing. I'm also bitter that my old account that was closed a long time ago cannot be retrieved or reset, which means that I cannot use my phone number again (it's stuck forever to the closed account).
- quaintdev 5y ago
  What are you talking about? You do not need phone number. I self host matrix instance and all I did was create username and passwords for people I know and shared with them. They then logged in and changed their passwords. At no point the sign up workflow asked for phone number. Also, the UI has improved a lot recently. There are number of matrix clients that have appeared on app stores but I still prefer Element which gets regular updates and features.
  - pferde 5y ago
    You don't even need to create usernames/passwords in advance - you can just send your friends custom one-time URLs, which will allow them to enter their own desired usernames and passwords. https://zeratax.github.io/matrix-registration/ https://zeratax.github.io/matrix-registration/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gefhfff 5y ago
  Matrix itself has as much as an UI as Email (even less)
- johnisgood 5y ago

mihcsab 5y ago

you can use scrcpy for android screenshots

iggldiggl 5y ago
Not on Android 12 any more, though (that is scrcpy as such still works, but it's no longer able to mirror "secure" apps).

nyuszika7h 5y ago

> And how do they plan to restrict screenshots on iOS anyway? iOS doesn't have the same system as Android that fully blocks screenshots within the app, but they can obscure part of the screen when taking a screenshot.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]