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FIA boss: Electric F1 racing is 'simply not possible'

8 points by samizdis 5y ago

miika 5y ago
Why not just replace battery at pit stop?
- Delk 5y ago
  The batteries in a Formula E car, just for comparison, weigh 200 kg, according to Wikipedia. I don't know how much the batteries required to provide power comparable to F1 cars would weigh, but I'm pretty sure it's not less than that. I suppose it might be possible to change the batteries using some kind of a crane system, but it doesn't seem straightforward to just replace the batteries quickly. It's not a single small battery.
  - orbital-decay 5y ago
    If it's supposed to deliver cutting edge tech into consumer cars, one can expect them to push the envelope of what's possible (and feasible). Surely it's something a robotic system can do quickly and reliably, if you make engineers compete, like they did in F1 in 70's.
    - rurban 5y ago
      Sorry to disappoint you, but F1 electric engines which are used for F1 engine testing are miles ahead of any e-motor you'll see in any car for the next 20 years. Cutting edge PMM technology is not affordable, way too powerful, way too powerhungry, and way too fragile for any consumer car. We (former F1 engine test engineer) were pushing the electric engine envelope way too far, latest Tesla's do look like VW Beetles to us. You simply cannot have tires and chassis control to keep such cars on the street. Nor heat control, you'd need special cooling systems. But even with the simplest F1 tech: Consumer cars still don't have normal racing gear shifters nor CVS transmission nor 10Khz ECU's. They are fine with 500Hz. I cannot foresee any F1 PMM's nor other F1 tech in cars.
clouddrover 5y ago
It's true. There is no battery electric equivalent of an F1 car that's competitive over an F1 race distance. Maybe hydrogen fuel cell if you could package it small enough. Toyota's trying a hydrogen combustion engine but it doesn't have much range: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43426/toyota-will-run-hydrogen-and-synthetic-fueled-race-cars-next-year https://www.thedrive.com/news/43426/toyota-will-run-hydrogen... The next step for F1 to become more eco-friendly is to switch to synthetic fuel. But most of F1's carbon footprint is in the factories and team transport anyway and not the emissions from the cars.
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  It will either be liquid hydrogen or synfuels. Lemans might look into the former.
- _hypx 5y ago
  The only plausible solutions are hydrogen combustion or synfuels for now. There are no other ways of making a viable race car right now.
mikro2nd 5y ago
Good. Eliminate this useless and elitist "sport".
rasz 5y ago
>"All of this experience, all this research, is profitable to road users. That's why, now you hear about electric cars with a range of 400-500 kilometres (250-310 miles) which was not the case 10 years ago," he says. That is a strong statement without any backup. Tesla has been shipping >250mile range EVs since 2012, before Formula E even existed. In not familiar with ANY technologies that came out of Formula E to passenger cars. >"Charging times have also decreased significantly." No thanks to Formula E where there was never any charging mid race, and everyone uses same battery supplied by organizers. > There have been setbacks - not least the recent withdrawal of teams from Audi and BMW, while Mercedes plans to leave at the end of next season. so EV racing is so useful for R&D all the companies in most desperate need for innovation pulled out?
- ksec 5y ago
  Most Formula E races end up being 80 to 90 kilometers (49-55 miles) in length. Formula 1 races have their race limits set at a total distance of 305 kilometers (189.5 miles).
gtm1260 5y ago
This is true simply because Formula E has the exclusive right from the FIA for open wheeled, single seater electric racing for the next 10 years.
rawTruthHurts 5y ago
Given the current environmental situation, that sounds like a good reason to dismantle the entire industry.
karmakaze 5y ago
We could make tracks that have wireless charging!

8 points by samizdis 5y ago

miika 5y ago

Why not just replace battery at pit stop?

Delk 5y ago
The batteries in a Formula E car, just for comparison, weigh 200 kg, according to Wikipedia. I don't know how much the batteries required to provide power comparable to F1 cars would weigh, but I'm pretty sure it's not less than that. I suppose it might be possible to change the batteries using some kind of a crane system, but it doesn't seem straightforward to just replace the batteries quickly. It's not a single small battery.
- orbital-decay 5y ago
  If it's supposed to deliver cutting edge tech into consumer cars, one can expect them to push the envelope of what's possible (and feasible). Surely it's something a robotic system can do quickly and reliably, if you make engineers compete, like they did in F1 in 70's.
  - rurban 5y ago
    Sorry to disappoint you, but F1 electric engines which are used for F1 engine testing are miles ahead of any e-motor you'll see in any car for the next 20 years. Cutting edge PMM technology is not affordable, way too powerful, way too powerhungry, and way too fragile for any consumer car. We (former F1 engine test engineer) were pushing the electric engine envelope way too far, latest Tesla's do look like VW Beetles to us. You simply cannot have tires and chassis control to keep such cars on the street. Nor heat control, you'd need special cooling systems. But even with the simplest F1 tech: Consumer cars still don't have normal racing gear shifters nor CVS transmission nor 10Khz ECU's. They are fine with 500Hz. I cannot foresee any F1 PMM's nor other F1 tech in cars.

clouddrover 5y ago

It's true. There is no battery electric equivalent of an F1 car that's competitive over an F1 race distance. Maybe hydrogen fuel cell if you could package it small enough. Toyota's trying a hydrogen combustion engine but it doesn't have much range: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43426/toyota-will-run-hydrogen-and-synthetic-fueled-race-cars-next-year https://www.thedrive.com/news/43426/toyota-will-run-hydrogen... The next step for F1 to become more eco-friendly is to switch to synthetic fuel. But most of F1's carbon footprint is in the factories and team transport anyway and not the emissions from the cars.

Hypx_ 5y ago
It will either be liquid hydrogen or synfuels. Lemans might look into the former.
_hypx 5y ago
The only plausible solutions are hydrogen combustion or synfuels for now. There are no other ways of making a viable race car right now.

mikro2nd 5y ago

Good. Eliminate this useless and elitist "sport".

rasz 5y ago

>"All of this experience, all this research, is profitable to road users. That's why, now you hear about electric cars with a range of 400-500 kilometres (250-310 miles) which was not the case 10 years ago," he says. That is a strong statement without any backup. Tesla has been shipping >250mile range EVs since 2012, before Formula E even existed. In not familiar with ANY technologies that came out of Formula E to passenger cars. >"Charging times have also decreased significantly." No thanks to Formula E where there was never any charging mid race, and everyone uses same battery supplied by organizers. > There have been setbacks - not least the recent withdrawal of teams from Audi and BMW, while Mercedes plans to leave at the end of next season. so EV racing is so useful for R&D all the companies in most desperate need for innovation pulled out?

ksec 5y ago
Most Formula E races end up being 80 to 90 kilometers (49-55 miles) in length. Formula 1 races have their race limits set at a total distance of 305 kilometers (189.5 miles).

gtm1260 5y ago

This is true simply because Formula E has the exclusive right from the FIA for open wheeled, single seater electric racing for the next 10 years.

rawTruthHurts 5y ago

Given the current environmental situation, that sounds like a good reason to dismantle the entire industry.

karmakaze 5y ago

We could make tracks that have wireless charging!