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Two questions come to my mind, slightly unrelated: 1) If there is such a stigma with "mental health", why do people not use a different term for it, e.g., "emo

Two questions come to my mind, slightly unrelated: 1) If there is such a stigma with "mental health", why do people not use a different term for it, e.g., "emotional health"? 2) Why do they only focus on the impacts these platforms have on children (younger humans), do these platforms not have similar harms to us older humans?

dgfitz 5y ago
Meta Health. Game. Set. Match.
pseudalopex 5y ago
The stigma isn't from the words. Some of the contributors research child or adolescent psychology. Maybe all. And including adults would lose public support from people who think adults can look out for themselves. No one thinks children can and adults can't.
aasasd 5y ago
> If there is such a stigma with "mental health", why do people not use a different term for it, e.g., "emotional health"? That's called ‘euphemism treadmill’: newly invented euphemisms will soon be hijacked for pejorative use. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill (and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift) IMO this is a part of a more general process that many words shift meanings or are re-appropriated to describe emotional or political judgement. E.g. ‘autistic’ became trendy as an invective about ten years ago; and ‘awesome’ doesn't cut it anymore for clickbait, so different words are in vogue now—until they too become overused to death. Anyway, science and healthcare can't and shouldn't change its vocabulary every time fourteen-year-olds on Reddit decide they are done with one pejorative term and start stigmatizing another one.
- jimkleiber 5y ago
  > That's called ‘euphemism treadmill’: newly invented euphemisms will soon be hijacked for pejorative use. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill (and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift) Ah, I wrote a paper on euphemisms in first and second languages when I was in college but hadn't heard about this before, I'm excited to check into it more, thank you! > Anyway, science and healthcare can't and shouldn't change its vocabulary every time fourteen-year-olds on Reddit decide they are done with one pejorative term and start stigmatizing another one. I agree that I don't want science to necessarily change its terms because a sub-cultural group decided it offended them; sometimes maybe, but not always, as having consistency of terms can make it easier to replicate research. I think the irony with the case "mental health" is that it used to be called "mental hygiene," so the term did change over time. I also think one of the aspects of science is trying to come up with new linguistic ways to parse the world—recategorizing things as more research is conducted. Maybe it's less getting rid of the term "mental health" but creating a new category that distinguishes from it. I think the challenge with the term "mental health" is less about a new stigma and more about the history of the term[0]: > The mental hygiene movement, in its origins and reflecting Beers’ experience in mental hospitals, was primarily and basically concerned with the improvement of the care of people with mental disorders. In Beers’ own words: “When the National Committee was organized, in 1909, its chief concern was to humanize the care of the insane: to eradicate the abuses, brutalities and neglect from which the mentally sick have traditionally suffered.” 4. > It was at a later stage that the Committee enlarged its program to include the “milder forms of mental disability” and a greater concern with preventive work. The rationale behind this shift was the belief that “mental disorders frequently have their beginnings in childhood and youth and that preventive measures are most effective in early life”, and that environmental conditions and modes of living produce mental ill health. I think the term "mental health" can carry that cultural history, of being used to treat the more extreme versions of mental health, not the more common, less severe occurrences. I also found this quote and wonder how much what the term covers has changed over time: > The First International Congress of Mental Health was organized in London by the British National Association for Mental Hygiene from 16 to 21 August, 1948...Only one concept of mental health was put forward, by J.C. Flugel, Chairman of the Conference’s Programme Committee: “Mental health is regarded as a condition which permits the optimal development, physical, intellectual and emotional, of the individual, so far as this is compatible with that of other individuals.” It almost seems as "mental health" was proposed to encompass physical, intellectual, and emotional development. Which may make sense if "mental" is defined as overarching, however, I imagine many today would see the "mental" as related to the brain. So while I think yes, sometimes we change terms because they've gained new stigma over time, I think this may be a case where it started with stigma. Maybe not. -- [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408392/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408392/
seoulmetro 5y ago
There's a stigma with 'mental health'? Jeez. Will we keep having to change the names of things because people get offended or upset at a descriptive (and accurate) word? Mental health and emotional health seem like very different things. I think that's more of the problem than a stigma with the words 'mental health'. Truth is, being depressed is mental unhealthy the same way over-eating is physical unhealthy. (and mentally unhealthy too, hah!)
- jimkleiber 5y ago
  Oh, I'd say that in many places there definitely is a stigma around either the term "mental health" or the concept in general. I've focused on emotions for the last 10 years or so with work and I've heard innumerable times people talk about "mental health" and "getting rid of the stigma." I personally believe it has more to do with the phrase and the history of the phrase—i.e., coming from mental health institutions and how it has been used for extreme cases—than with the concept itself. I also think the phrase can evoke defensiveness in a lot of people. If someone says to me there's something wrong with my mental health, I may think they're saying there's something wrong with my brain and lash out. If someone says there's something wrong with my emotional health, I may go, "Yeah, I've been stressed, worried, frustrated, etc." > Mental health and emotional health seem like very different things. How would you say they differ?
  - seoulmetro 5y ago
    I would say that a mentally disabled person has physical properties of their brain that do not work. Emotional disability is... what? I wouldn't call a person with down syndrome of having poor physical health, or emotional health. I'd say their mental health is permanently damaged. The same way someone with a life long disease might have permanently poor physical health.
    - jimkleiber 5y ago
      This helps me a lot actually, in feeling more clear about how to proceed. I think I had been saying to myself that "emotional health" should replace the term "mental health" and in reading what you wrote, I think maybe the two terms can co-exist and appeal differently to different people. For example, I think I often hear "mental health" including everything from down syndrome to dyslexia to depression to stress. It reminds me of being in a bookstore and I asked about books on empathy and the person led me to two sections: one on psychology and one psychics. I skimmed the psychology book and it talked about setting boundaries and paying attention to how one felt. I skimmed the psychics book and it talked about psychic walls and auras. I then realized they may be talking about very similar things but with different and slightly different approaches. Regardless, thank you for helping me feel more clear on just using the language that resonates with me and seeing if and how it resonates with others.

dgfitz 5y ago

Meta Health. Game. Set. Match.

pseudalopex 5y ago

The stigma isn't from the words. Some of the contributors research child or adolescent psychology. Maybe all. And including adults would lose public support from people who think adults can look out for themselves. No one thinks children can and adults can't.

aasasd 5y ago

> If there is such a stigma with "mental health", why do people not use a different term for it, e.g., "emotional health"? That's called ‘euphemism treadmill’: newly invented euphemisms will soon be hijacked for pejorative use. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill (and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift) IMO this is a part of a more general process that many words shift meanings or are re-appropriated to describe emotional or political judgement. E.g. ‘autistic’ became trendy as an invective about ten years ago; and ‘awesome’ doesn't cut it anymore for clickbait, so different words are in vogue now—until they too become overused to death. Anyway, science and healthcare can't and shouldn't change its vocabulary every time fourteen-year-olds on Reddit decide they are done with one pejorative term and start stigmatizing another one.

jimkleiber 5y ago
> That's called ‘euphemism treadmill’: newly invented euphemisms will soon be hijacked for pejorative use. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill (and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism#Context_and_drift) Ah, I wrote a paper on euphemisms in first and second languages when I was in college but hadn't heard about this before, I'm excited to check into it more, thank you! > Anyway, science and healthcare can't and shouldn't change its vocabulary every time fourteen-year-olds on Reddit decide they are done with one pejorative term and start stigmatizing another one. I agree that I don't want science to necessarily change its terms because a sub-cultural group decided it offended them; sometimes maybe, but not always, as having consistency of terms can make it easier to replicate research. I think the irony with the case "mental health" is that it used to be called "mental hygiene," so the term did change over time. I also think one of the aspects of science is trying to come up with new linguistic ways to parse the world—recategorizing things as more research is conducted. Maybe it's less getting rid of the term "mental health" but creating a new category that distinguishes from it. I think the challenge with the term "mental health" is less about a new stigma and more about the history of the term[0]: > The mental hygiene movement, in its origins and reflecting Beers’ experience in mental hospitals, was primarily and basically concerned with the improvement of the care of people with mental disorders. In Beers’ own words: “When the National Committee was organized, in 1909, its chief concern was to humanize the care of the insane: to eradicate the abuses, brutalities and neglect from which the mentally sick have traditionally suffered.” 4. > It was at a later stage that the Committee enlarged its program to include the “milder forms of mental disability” and a greater concern with preventive work. The rationale behind this shift was the belief that “mental disorders frequently have their beginnings in childhood and youth and that preventive measures are most effective in early life”, and that environmental conditions and modes of living produce mental ill health. I think the term "mental health" can carry that cultural history, of being used to treat the more extreme versions of mental health, not the more common, less severe occurrences. I also found this quote and wonder how much what the term covers has changed over time: > The First International Congress of Mental Health was organized in London by the British National Association for Mental Hygiene from 16 to 21 August, 1948...Only one concept of mental health was put forward, by J.C. Flugel, Chairman of the Conference’s Programme Committee: “Mental health is regarded as a condition which permits the optimal development, physical, intellectual and emotional, of the individual, so far as this is compatible with that of other individuals.” It almost seems as "mental health" was proposed to encompass physical, intellectual, and emotional development. Which may make sense if "mental" is defined as overarching, however, I imagine many today would see the "mental" as related to the brain. So while I think yes, sometimes we change terms because they've gained new stigma over time, I think this may be a case where it started with stigma. Maybe not. -- [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408392/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408392/

seoulmetro 5y ago

There's a stigma with 'mental health'? Jeez. Will we keep having to change the names of things because people get offended or upset at a descriptive (and accurate) word? Mental health and emotional health seem like very different things. I think that's more of the problem than a stigma with the words 'mental health'. Truth is, being depressed is mental unhealthy the same way over-eating is physical unhealthy. (and mentally unhealthy too, hah!)

jimkleiber 5y ago
Oh, I'd say that in many places there definitely is a stigma around either the term "mental health" or the concept in general. I've focused on emotions for the last 10 years or so with work and I've heard innumerable times people talk about "mental health" and "getting rid of the stigma." I personally believe it has more to do with the phrase and the history of the phrase—i.e., coming from mental health institutions and how it has been used for extreme cases—than with the concept itself. I also think the phrase can evoke defensiveness in a lot of people. If someone says to me there's something wrong with my mental health, I may think they're saying there's something wrong with my brain and lash out. If someone says there's something wrong with my emotional health, I may go, "Yeah, I've been stressed, worried, frustrated, etc." > Mental health and emotional health seem like very different things. How would you say they differ?
- seoulmetro 5y ago
  I would say that a mentally disabled person has physical properties of their brain that do not work. Emotional disability is... what? I wouldn't call a person with down syndrome of having poor physical health, or emotional health. I'd say their mental health is permanently damaged. The same way someone with a life long disease might have permanently poor physical health.
  - jimkleiber 5y ago
    This helps me a lot actually, in feeling more clear about how to proceed. I think I had been saying to myself that "emotional health" should replace the term "mental health" and in reading what you wrote, I think maybe the two terms can co-exist and appeal differently to different people. For example, I think I often hear "mental health" including everything from down syndrome to dyslexia to depression to stress. It reminds me of being in a bookstore and I asked about books on empathy and the person led me to two sections: one on psychology and one psychics. I skimmed the psychology book and it talked about setting boundaries and paying attention to how one felt. I skimmed the psychics book and it talked about psychic walls and auras. I then realized they may be talking about very similar things but with different and slightly different approaches. Regardless, thank you for helping me feel more clear on just using the language that resonates with me and seeing if and how it resonates with others.