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It is declined. The point I was making is that it was declined not because it was a foreign last name. Swapping Zuckerberg for Putin in that sentence would decl

It is declined. The point I was making is that it was declined not because it was a foreign last name. Swapping Zuckerberg for Putin in that sentence would decline Putin's last name in the exact same way.

stavros 5y ago
I see, thank you. As an aside, you would not decline the transliteration of a foreign name in Greek. They used to "Greekify" the names a century ago and decline them, but now that sounds extremely dated and odd.
- aasasd 5y ago
  In Russian, the amount to which words were assimilated has also changed depending on which foreign language was in vogue at the time, and to what extent. In the past, pronunciations of English borrowed words became closer to Russian standards. But now that English is trendy for the past thirty years after the USSR collapse—all the way to using branding in English on signage and advertising—often English pronunciation is almost unchanged, as much as it's possible. Afaiu it was the same in the past with French borrowings and then German ones (or perhaps in the reverse order)—kinda similar to English flirtings with French and Latin, but thankfully without such a mess in spelling. However, Цукерберг/Zuckerberg is quite natural for Russian due to being an obviously Jewish name. The first letter isn't even the voiced ‘z’ in Russian, but a ‘ts’, because that's how analogous Jewish names are pronounced here.
  - stavros 5y ago
    > But now that English is trendy for the past thirty years after the USSR collapse—all the way to using branding in English on signage and advertising—often English pronunciation is almost unchanged, as much as it's possible. Now that you mention it, that's exactly what happened with Greek too. Branding used to be Greek, then sort-of-foreignified Greek (eg Greek words with a foreign suffix) and now just English. > first letter isn't even the voiced ‘z’ in Russian, but a ‘ts’, That's probably because of the German pronunciation, no?
    - aasasd 5y ago
      Hmm, weird about the branding in Greece, since afaik you haven't had a sudden-ish disappearance of an Iron Curtain with a resulting influx of Western culture. But I guess that globalism-aka-Americanism is more widespread than just our case. > That's probably because of the German pronunciation, no? Well yeah. Wiktionary notes straight away that the surname is Ashkenazic—it was most probably naturalized in Russian through Ukraine's and specifically Odessa's Jewish population. The more familiar variation here is ‘Zuckerman’.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  How much does modern Greek rely on its case marking? It seems like one especially common use of foreign names would be to report on something that happened outside Greece with all non-Greek participants. But that's pretty much the worst case for giving up on overt case-marking; none of the nouns would have an obvious case.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Not very much, you have the articles that help give context. For example, you'd say "του κυρίου Ζούκερμπεργκ" and "του κυρίου" (rather than "ο κύριος") makes it clear that it's the genitive case.
- filoleg 5y ago
  In Russian, it would depend on the last name in question specifically, as well as the gender of the person talked about. I am a native speaker, but I don't know which specific grammar rule governs it. For example, Zuckerberg absolutely gets declined and gets that "oo" at the end. "To Mr. Dorsey" doesn't get changed (i.e., no added "oo" at the end) due to declining (but it still gets declined), while "to Mr. Smith" definitely gets that extra "oo" at the end due to declining. But "to Mrs. Smith" is unchanged after declining, so it doesn't get that same "oo" ending.

stavros 5y ago

I see, thank you. As an aside, you would not decline the transliteration of a foreign name in Greek. They used to "Greekify" the names a century ago and decline them, but now that sounds extremely dated and odd.

aasasd 5y ago
In Russian, the amount to which words were assimilated has also changed depending on which foreign language was in vogue at the time, and to what extent. In the past, pronunciations of English borrowed words became closer to Russian standards. But now that English is trendy for the past thirty years after the USSR collapse—all the way to using branding in English on signage and advertising—often English pronunciation is almost unchanged, as much as it's possible. Afaiu it was the same in the past with French borrowings and then German ones (or perhaps in the reverse order)—kinda similar to English flirtings with French and Latin, but thankfully without such a mess in spelling. However, Цукерберг/Zuckerberg is quite natural for Russian due to being an obviously Jewish name. The first letter isn't even the voiced ‘z’ in Russian, but a ‘ts’, because that's how analogous Jewish names are pronounced here.
- stavros 5y ago
  > But now that English is trendy for the past thirty years after the USSR collapse—all the way to using branding in English on signage and advertising—often English pronunciation is almost unchanged, as much as it's possible. Now that you mention it, that's exactly what happened with Greek too. Branding used to be Greek, then sort-of-foreignified Greek (eg Greek words with a foreign suffix) and now just English. > first letter isn't even the voiced ‘z’ in Russian, but a ‘ts’, That's probably because of the German pronunciation, no?
  - aasasd 5y ago
    Hmm, weird about the branding in Greece, since afaik you haven't had a sudden-ish disappearance of an Iron Curtain with a resulting influx of Western culture. But I guess that globalism-aka-Americanism is more widespread than just our case. > That's probably because of the German pronunciation, no? Well yeah. Wiktionary notes straight away that the surname is Ashkenazic—it was most probably naturalized in Russian through Ukraine's and specifically Odessa's Jewish population. The more familiar variation here is ‘Zuckerman’.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
How much does modern Greek rely on its case marking? It seems like one especially common use of foreign names would be to report on something that happened outside Greece with all non-Greek participants. But that's pretty much the worst case for giving up on overt case-marking; none of the nouns would have an obvious case.
- stavros 5y ago
  Not very much, you have the articles that help give context. For example, you'd say "του κυρίου Ζούκερμπεργκ" and "του κυρίου" (rather than "ο κύριος") makes it clear that it's the genitive case.
filoleg 5y ago
In Russian, it would depend on the last name in question specifically, as well as the gender of the person talked about. I am a native speaker, but I don't know which specific grammar rule governs it. For example, Zuckerberg absolutely gets declined and gets that "oo" at the end. "To Mr. Dorsey" doesn't get changed (i.e., no added "oo" at the end) due to declining (but it still gets declined), while "to Mr. Smith" definitely gets that extra "oo" at the end due to declining. But "to Mrs. Smith" is unchanged after declining, so it doesn't get that same "oo" ending.