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I used to be a pretty frequent psychedelic user. These results sound right to me. I would've considered panpsychism to be totally absurd before I discovered L

I used to be a pretty frequent psychedelic user. These results sound right to me. I would've considered panpsychism to be totally absurd before I discovered LSD, for instance. Now it's my daily driver.

ffwacom 5y ago
Same. A trip answered all my questions.
toomanydoubts 5y ago
I've had the same experience. Can't shake the idea that `consciousness == god` and we are all tiny manifestations of this "essence", after some psychedelic trips. My rational mind always goes back to atheism when sober, but the idea is always there in the back of my mind.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o
  - toomanydoubts 5y ago
    I have to admit I might have been influenced by "The Egg" before. I hadn't seen the Alan Watts poem before, but that somehow has just put me to tears. Thanks for sharing.
  - BossingAround 5y ago
    Alan Watts is an excellent writer and speaker, absolutely worth reading and listening to. I can't help but feeling that the video wraps his speech into a pathos of melancholic, "full of emotions" song married to a meaningless set of disjointed clips. I'd recommend reading his books, The Way of Zen was excellent.
- sethaurus 5y ago
  Perhaps this is self-delusion on my part, but I've had no trouble integrating materialism/atheism with what you're describing — that kind of psychedelic panpsychism. They don't feel like competing claims.
  - toomanydoubts 5y ago
    I don't mean the usual anthropomorphic god. It's just that once you accept that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe, it's not a big leap to think that it's god(not in the sense of "god, the creator", but in the sense of "god, the consciousness that is and that experiences the universe").
    - circlemaker 5y ago
      The big leap is that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe.
- monktastic1 5y ago
  Per your description below ("god, the consciousness that is and that experiences the universe") I would have pegged you as an idealist (god is and dreams the universe), not a panpsychist.
  - toomanydoubts 5y ago
    To be honest, I'm don't know much about philosophy of the mind. From the very little I've read right know, probably my current view is closer to cosmopsychism, maybe? This is what I just read: "but the difference is that for the analytic idealist the universal mind is a reality which underlies the physical world, whereas for the cosmopsychist the universal mind is the physical universe."
tayo42 5y ago
I think panpsychism just needs to be explained well and probably most people would be onboard with the idea or at least comfortable accepting it. I thought it was a little wild at first but after reading "Galileo's Error" by Phillip Goff it seems ok. Panspychism it self covers so many theories too. In my personal experience psychedelic use seemed to almost solidify materialism for me. The idea that reality, your self and soul is nothing but an illusion is uncomfortable but I think tripping can reinforce that idea.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  how does it reinforce/solidity materialism for you?
  - tayo42 5y ago
    During my first lsd trip, I was sitting on a rock in the park, and I'm not sure what happened or why, but suddenly my entire reality fell apart, disintegrated into a bright light and small pieces, and I became intensely aware of how we are seemingly are just built up from particles that came together. I think those pieces were the atoms and molecules that came together to create my experience of the world. Less about the psychedelic experience itself. I also think that the existence of these drugs show that someone's reality is constructed from chemicals and cells doing what they do. Psychedelics are like throwing a wrench in a machine. The chemicals and mechanics are working differently now and the conscious experience changes with it. Depending on the drug introduced the perception changes, or consider some drugs like anesthetics where you can be awake and responsive but not have any personal awareness of whats going on. On DMT trips I felt abstract thought fall apart along with the idea of my self(Ego death maybe?). I couldn't form ideas, and there was no longer an idea of self. "I" didn't exist. But this happens because a chemical is introduced into a system that is generating a conscious experience and it changes because of it. A typical brain creates these abstract ideas, your self identity, interprets senses in a certain way. That's the illusion created. Since drugs being introduced into the system can turn off that sense of self, I, your soul(anesthesia, ego death) I don't think dualism is really applicable, the mind seems to be generated by the brain/body and its chemicals. Hope i explained my self alright, not a topic I get to talk or think about much
kaycebasques 5y ago
Can you elaborate on panpsychism being your daily driver? Wikipedia article suggests it has something to do with minds being present throughout the universe. Are we talking animals? Rocks? Everything? Computers?
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  This might sound strangely obvious, but some report that somehow they obtain much deeper insight into motivations and intent of others. a different, fresh point of view, a heightened sense of empathy?
- __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  Sure. I once wrote a paper for epistemology class (https://github.com/MatrixManAtYrService/Righting/blob/master/YAH/YAH.pdf https://github.com/MatrixManAtYrService/Righting/blob/master...). In it I argue that there is a category of propositions that are knowably unknowable. These are things that we know that we will never be able to know. One example of such a proposition is: > We're living in a simulation that's too complete for us to escape You can believe it, or you can disbelieve it, and neither stance is more rational than the other. Beliefs in such a space can't be motivated by evidence, so they have to be motivated by something else--like whether they cause you to live the kind of life that you want to be living, or maybe you just think it's fun. My beliefs re: panpsychism are like this. I don't anticipate ever being able to prove them, nor do I expect to run into evidence that disproves them. They go something like this: I like to imagine that there is more than one temporal dimension. When we humans have cause to believe that a certain part of the universe has a mind, it's because that part of the universe is doing something that creates an arrow of time that is parallel to our own. Its future is also our future. This lets us communicate with it (maybe). By contrast, when we encounter a rock or a lightning bolt or something that you'd generally call dead. Well, whatever machinations that part of the universe is having towards supporting its experience--they create an arrow of time that is orthogonal to ours, so we can't communicate with them. It's not so much that each rock is alive, or each lightning bolt, but that the whole universe is alive. The part of the universe that I get go call myself has come up with names for the other parts, but those names are just part of the story that I tell myself. Other perspectives might group things into entities worth naming in other ways. Maybe what I call "my" behavior is functioning like a neuron in something... else. I like to mess with people who are having arguments about abortion: I believe that life begins not at conception, not at birth, but at the big bang. There are very few ways that this belief affects my life, but it does occasionally motivate me to meditate. If I can get my own thoughts to settle down for a while I feel like I can tap into a bigger awareness. It's not having any thoughts that I can decipher, but it feels nice anyhow.

ffwacom 5y ago

Same. A trip answered all my questions.

toomanydoubts 5y ago

I've had the same experience. Can't shake the idea that `consciousness == god` and we are all tiny manifestations of this "essence", after some psychedelic trips. My rational mind always goes back to atheism when sober, but the idea is always there in the back of my mind.

inter_netuser 5y ago
http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  I have to admit I might have been influenced by "The Egg" before. I hadn't seen the Alan Watts poem before, but that somehow has just put me to tears. Thanks for sharing.
- BossingAround 5y ago
  Alan Watts is an excellent writer and speaker, absolutely worth reading and listening to. I can't help but feeling that the video wraps his speech into a pathos of melancholic, "full of emotions" song married to a meaningless set of disjointed clips. I'd recommend reading his books, The Way of Zen was excellent.
sethaurus 5y ago
Perhaps this is self-delusion on my part, but I've had no trouble integrating materialism/atheism with what you're describing — that kind of psychedelic panpsychism. They don't feel like competing claims.
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  I don't mean the usual anthropomorphic god. It's just that once you accept that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe, it's not a big leap to think that it's god(not in the sense of "god, the creator", but in the sense of "god, the consciousness that is and that experiences the universe").
  - circlemaker 5y ago
    The big leap is that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe.
monktastic1 5y ago
Per your description below ("god, the consciousness that is and that experiences the universe") I would have pegged you as an idealist (god is and dreams the universe), not a panpsychist.
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  To be honest, I'm don't know much about philosophy of the mind. From the very little I've read right know, probably my current view is closer to cosmopsychism, maybe? This is what I just read: "but the difference is that for the analytic idealist the universal mind is a reality which underlies the physical world, whereas for the cosmopsychist the universal mind is the physical universe."

tayo42 5y ago

I think panpsychism just needs to be explained well and probably most people would be onboard with the idea or at least comfortable accepting it. I thought it was a little wild at first but after reading "Galileo's Error" by Phillip Goff it seems ok. Panspychism it self covers so many theories too. In my personal experience psychedelic use seemed to almost solidify materialism for me. The idea that reality, your self and soul is nothing but an illusion is uncomfortable but I think tripping can reinforce that idea.

inter_netuser 5y ago
how does it reinforce/solidity materialism for you?
- tayo42 5y ago
  During my first lsd trip, I was sitting on a rock in the park, and I'm not sure what happened or why, but suddenly my entire reality fell apart, disintegrated into a bright light and small pieces, and I became intensely aware of how we are seemingly are just built up from particles that came together. I think those pieces were the atoms and molecules that came together to create my experience of the world. Less about the psychedelic experience itself. I also think that the existence of these drugs show that someone's reality is constructed from chemicals and cells doing what they do. Psychedelics are like throwing a wrench in a machine. The chemicals and mechanics are working differently now and the conscious experience changes with it. Depending on the drug introduced the perception changes, or consider some drugs like anesthetics where you can be awake and responsive but not have any personal awareness of whats going on. On DMT trips I felt abstract thought fall apart along with the idea of my self(Ego death maybe?). I couldn't form ideas, and there was no longer an idea of self. "I" didn't exist. But this happens because a chemical is introduced into a system that is generating a conscious experience and it changes because of it. A typical brain creates these abstract ideas, your self identity, interprets senses in a certain way. That's the illusion created. Since drugs being introduced into the system can turn off that sense of self, I, your soul(anesthesia, ego death) I don't think dualism is really applicable, the mind seems to be generated by the brain/body and its chemicals. Hope i explained my self alright, not a topic I get to talk or think about much

kaycebasques 5y ago

Can you elaborate on panpsychism being your daily driver? Wikipedia article suggests it has something to do with minds being present throughout the universe. Are we talking animals? Rocks? Everything? Computers?

inter_netuser 5y ago
This might sound strangely obvious, but some report that somehow they obtain much deeper insight into motivations and intent of others. a different, fresh point of view, a heightened sense of empathy?
__MatrixMan__ 5y ago
Sure. I once wrote a paper for epistemology class (https://github.com/MatrixManAtYrService/Righting/blob/master/YAH/YAH.pdf https://github.com/MatrixManAtYrService/Righting/blob/master...). In it I argue that there is a category of propositions that are knowably unknowable. These are things that we know that we will never be able to know. One example of such a proposition is: > We're living in a simulation that's too complete for us to escape You can believe it, or you can disbelieve it, and neither stance is more rational than the other. Beliefs in such a space can't be motivated by evidence, so they have to be motivated by something else--like whether they cause you to live the kind of life that you want to be living, or maybe you just think it's fun. My beliefs re: panpsychism are like this. I don't anticipate ever being able to prove them, nor do I expect to run into evidence that disproves them. They go something like this: I like to imagine that there is more than one temporal dimension. When we humans have cause to believe that a certain part of the universe has a mind, it's because that part of the universe is doing something that creates an arrow of time that is parallel to our own. Its future is also our future. This lets us communicate with it (maybe). By contrast, when we encounter a rock or a lightning bolt or something that you'd generally call dead. Well, whatever machinations that part of the universe is having towards supporting its experience--they create an arrow of time that is orthogonal to ours, so we can't communicate with them. It's not so much that each rock is alive, or each lightning bolt, but that the whole universe is alive. The part of the universe that I get go call myself has come up with names for the other parts, but those names are just part of the story that I tell myself. Other perspectives might group things into entities worth naming in other ways. Maybe what I call "my" behavior is functioning like a neuron in something... else. I like to mess with people who are having arguments about abortion: I believe that life begins not at conception, not at birth, but at the big bang. There are very few ways that this belief affects my life, but it does occasionally motivate me to meditate. If I can get my own thoughts to settle down for a while I feel like I can tap into a bigger awareness. It's not having any thoughts that I can decipher, but it feels nice anyhow.