5 ms·

Which version did they remove the cool screenshot feature? seems like they just added it.... (you could easily take a screenshot of the whole page) Edit: Look

by authed 5y ago

Which version did they remove the cool screenshot feature? seems like they just added it.... (you could easily take a screenshot of the whole page) Edit: Looks like Firefox 88 only moved the feature: https://techdows.com/2021/03/firefox-88-removes-screenshot-option-from-address-bar-how-to-take-screenshots.html https://techdows.com/2021/03/firefox-88-removes-screenshot-o... I wonder what useless/detrimental move they made this time I remember when they removed the right-click View Image not long ago... luckily there's an add-on that can bring back this basic feature.

acdha 5y ago
They removed one of the ways you could get to it: from the right-click context menu. You can still use the keyboard shortcut or add it to the toolbar. (Yes, it was disappointing to see it removed for no good reason)
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yeah and then a few updates later their holy telemetry tells them nobody uses it anymore (makes sense as it's much harder to find) and it gets cut. It goes like this a lot. They listen too much to telemetry. Especially because a significant part of their userbase will turn it off.
  - nyuszika7h 5y ago
    This is exactly the issue with telemetry, it's a vicious cycle. Most power users will turn it off because it's "spyware", so the only telemetry they get is from average users who don't even know the feature exists, which leads to them removing useful features, so in its current state it's practically useless for actual measurements and only ends up hurting things. That's why I don't like when there's a blind hate mob against telemetry, because it can be legitimately useful for developers. People should focus on voicing actual privacy concerns and trying to get them addressed rather than completely rejecting any form of telemetry no matter how anonymous they try to make it. But on the other hand, Mozilla should be well aware that a large majority of their user base probably turns off telemetry (I'm not sure if there's any telemetry sent back that says "user turned off telemetry", maybe not because some people are outraged even by that, but regardless they should know that) and not arbitrarily remove features that are "unused" when their sample is not representative. I highly doubt a feature like this causes a huge maintainance burden that necessitates removing it. I'm not entirely sure what kind of data Mozilla's telemetry collects, so I'm just more talking in general and not claiming that it's fully anonymous and there's no reason to be concerned at all. You should definitely be allowed to opt out (or maybe even make it opt-in - that does reduce the sample size even further but maybe if they showed trustworthiness then more people would be inclined to opt in), but IMO we need to find some solution that benefits both sides. The only other alternative I see is having some sort of forum where they make discussions/polls to ask users about how much they use certain features. But that requires active user effort and I imagine a lot of people couldn't be bothered to do it. Shoving surveys in users' faces would just annoy them, but not advertising it would result in a lot of people not knowing about it and missing out on an opportunity to vouch for their favorite feature because they weren't part of the discussion.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Well this is the same argument Microsoft make. "It's useful for us (and you) so it must be turned on". But I don't want my computer looking over my shoulder, anonymised or not. Other FOSS projects have been nice and asking about it (like Debian since forever with their popularity contest). The feeling of privacy is important too, it's not just about whether you can have any negative effects in life. And our privacy has been infringed so much that there is a big countermovement now. It's the industry's own fault. I used to be OK with it but because so many supposedly-innocent telemetry and tracking turned out to be malicious I no longer believe in a distinction between 'good' and 'bad' telemetry. That mindset also solves the problem of having to read every privacy policy before agreeing to stuff and be on the lookout for sneaky changes. Even though I think Mozilla is trustworthy as such, the concept of telemetry is just dead in the water in the pro-privacy community. Which is of couse a major percentage of Mozilla's userbase. A poll in-browser would be a good idea IMO. Just put it in the menu and lots of users will answer it.
  - ksec 5y ago
    Basically infected by Google's A/B testing methodology. It really shouldn't be how design works. ( Part of the reason why Google still dont understand Design )

by authed 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

They removed one of the ways you could get to it: from the right-click context menu. You can still use the keyboard shortcut or add it to the toolbar. (Yes, it was disappointing to see it removed for no good reason)

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Yeah and then a few updates later their holy telemetry tells them nobody uses it anymore (makes sense as it's much harder to find) and it gets cut. It goes like this a lot. They listen too much to telemetry. Especially because a significant part of their userbase will turn it off.
- nyuszika7h 5y ago
  This is exactly the issue with telemetry, it's a vicious cycle. Most power users will turn it off because it's "spyware", so the only telemetry they get is from average users who don't even know the feature exists, which leads to them removing useful features, so in its current state it's practically useless for actual measurements and only ends up hurting things. That's why I don't like when there's a blind hate mob against telemetry, because it can be legitimately useful for developers. People should focus on voicing actual privacy concerns and trying to get them addressed rather than completely rejecting any form of telemetry no matter how anonymous they try to make it. But on the other hand, Mozilla should be well aware that a large majority of their user base probably turns off telemetry (I'm not sure if there's any telemetry sent back that says "user turned off telemetry", maybe not because some people are outraged even by that, but regardless they should know that) and not arbitrarily remove features that are "unused" when their sample is not representative. I highly doubt a feature like this causes a huge maintainance burden that necessitates removing it. I'm not entirely sure what kind of data Mozilla's telemetry collects, so I'm just more talking in general and not claiming that it's fully anonymous and there's no reason to be concerned at all. You should definitely be allowed to opt out (or maybe even make it opt-in - that does reduce the sample size even further but maybe if they showed trustworthiness then more people would be inclined to opt in), but IMO we need to find some solution that benefits both sides. The only other alternative I see is having some sort of forum where they make discussions/polls to ask users about how much they use certain features. But that requires active user effort and I imagine a lot of people couldn't be bothered to do it. Shoving surveys in users' faces would just annoy them, but not advertising it would result in a lot of people not knowing about it and missing out on an opportunity to vouch for their favorite feature because they weren't part of the discussion.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Well this is the same argument Microsoft make. "It's useful for us (and you) so it must be turned on". But I don't want my computer looking over my shoulder, anonymised or not. Other FOSS projects have been nice and asking about it (like Debian since forever with their popularity contest). The feeling of privacy is important too, it's not just about whether you can have any negative effects in life. And our privacy has been infringed so much that there is a big countermovement now. It's the industry's own fault. I used to be OK with it but because so many supposedly-innocent telemetry and tracking turned out to be malicious I no longer believe in a distinction between 'good' and 'bad' telemetry. That mindset also solves the problem of having to read every privacy policy before agreeing to stuff and be on the lookout for sneaky changes. Even though I think Mozilla is trustworthy as such, the concept of telemetry is just dead in the water in the pro-privacy community. Which is of couse a major percentage of Mozilla's userbase. A poll in-browser would be a good idea IMO. Just put it in the menu and lots of users will answer it.
- ksec 5y ago
  Basically infected by Google's A/B testing methodology. It really shouldn't be how design works. ( Part of the reason why Google still dont understand Design )