5 ms·

Here is a good timeline (complete with Elon's tweets) for Tesla's self driving capabilities. He has been lying about it for 5 years now and has been stringing

by gadnuk 5y ago

Here is a good timeline (complete with Elon's tweets) for Tesla's self driving capabilities. He has been lying about it for 5 years now and has been stringing on Tesla customers with statements like, "It's almost there!" and "Next version will blow your mind!" etc https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/n6nsmt/elons_tweet_does_not_match_engineering_reality/gx8kure/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/n6nsmt/elo... It's stunning how he has gotten away with lies for so long.

k12sosse 5y ago
Personally, I love being in command and control of 1000+ pounds of steel and liquid, seemingly propelled based on the angle of my foot. I wouldn't have it any other way! I think autonomous travel would be a great experiment for locomotives on isolated tracks.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > I think autonomous travel would be a great experiment for locomotives on isolated tracks. I think that's a little past an experiment; the first one went in in 1981. At this point, I would think most new fully segregated metro lines are automated. It's ~a completely different problem to self-driving cars, and a far more tractable one.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  You'd be a lot less enamored if you were on or near roadways on foot, bike, or motorcycle. Or drove a truck or vehicle with a trailer. There are several self-driving vehicle projects that have logged far better safety records than human drivers. They have radar and lidar units. Musk has insisted on solely cameras, which are far cheaper, but suffer from a slew of entirely predictable vision problems. Just hit up youtube and search for "tesla phantom braking."
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    To be fair, Teslas were using Radars until suddenly a chip shortage made all the Radars hard to find. All of a sudden: Tesla scrubs its blog (which used to talk about all the wonderful benefits of RADAR), removes all RADAR from future vehicles, and talks about how AI has advanced to make Radar unnecessary. Its pretty funny watching this in realtime. Surely, Elon Musk has heard of archive.org? You can't just scrub your blog and hope that people forget... in fact, scrubbing your blog makes these things more easily seen. https://web.archive.org/web/20210418114757/https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-seeing-world-radar https://web.archive.org/web/20210418114757/https://www.tesla... What was the famous line in 1984? We were always at war with Eastasia.
    - nwiswell 5y ago
      > Its pretty funny watching this in realtime Yes, Streisanding your disregard for public safety is hilarious. Elon should do prime-time comedy. Hey wait a minute...
- kunai 5y ago
  While humans driving is ludicrous and it's insane how little we train drivers for it, one thing it does make easy is assigning accountability to the liable party in the case of an accident or some other catastrophic failure. Tesla's "self-driving" burns that line into thin air, and also misleads drivers into a false sense of security. Musk needs to own up to that, because in the absence of a clear way to see who's at fault, the onus is on him to clear the air and he hasn't.
  - cyanydeez 5y ago
    humans understand corner cases, which are basically infinite when it comes to momentum chnages and obstacle detection.
    - nautilius 5y ago
      Have you ever observed humans drive?
    - Aicy 5y ago
      Humans have a minimum 150ms response time, which in many corner causes is too high
protoax 5y ago
Agreed, imagine paying thousands of dollars for a software product that is never delivered and continues to be pushed forward to the next year for five years running - it's unbelievable a solid case hasn't been brought against the company. Only a performer like Musk with such an influence on his fans could pull something like that off.
- science4sail 5y ago
  What about Star Citizen? * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14319340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14319340 [5 years ago] * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17553371 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17553371 [3 years ago] * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27628957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27628957 [6 months ago]
  - nautilius 5y ago
    Wow I didn’t realize it costs thousands of dollars!
    - wilg 5y ago
      You can certainly spend thousands of dollars on Star Citizen if you'd like! https://starcitizen.tools/List_of_pledge_vehicles https://starcitizen.tools/List_of_pledge_vehicles
a9h74j 5y ago
Not a lawyer, but don't "excusable" errors done for profit enter the legal category of fraud?
- readonthegoapp 5y ago
  Tesla is not capable of fraud. Nikola on the other hand...
wilg 5y ago
I mean all of these are missed deadlines or estimates, not lies, right?
- archsurface 5y ago
  Every few months over six years - he'd have to be an incredibly slow learner for that to have been just poor estimates all along.
  - wilg 5y ago
    Why?

by gadnuk 5y ago

k12sosse 5y ago

Personally, I love being in command and control of 1000+ pounds of steel and liquid, seemingly propelled based on the angle of my foot. I wouldn't have it any other way! I think autonomous travel would be a great experiment for locomotives on isolated tracks.

rsynnott 5y ago
> I think autonomous travel would be a great experiment for locomotives on isolated tracks. I think that's a little past an experiment; the first one went in in 1981. At this point, I would think most new fully segregated metro lines are automated. It's ~a completely different problem to self-driving cars, and a far more tractable one.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
You'd be a lot less enamored if you were on or near roadways on foot, bike, or motorcycle. Or drove a truck or vehicle with a trailer. There are several self-driving vehicle projects that have logged far better safety records than human drivers. They have radar and lidar units. Musk has insisted on solely cameras, which are far cheaper, but suffer from a slew of entirely predictable vision problems. Just hit up youtube and search for "tesla phantom braking."
- dragontamer 5y ago
  To be fair, Teslas were using Radars until suddenly a chip shortage made all the Radars hard to find. All of a sudden: Tesla scrubs its blog (which used to talk about all the wonderful benefits of RADAR), removes all RADAR from future vehicles, and talks about how AI has advanced to make Radar unnecessary. Its pretty funny watching this in realtime. Surely, Elon Musk has heard of archive.org? You can't just scrub your blog and hope that people forget... in fact, scrubbing your blog makes these things more easily seen. https://web.archive.org/web/20210418114757/https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-seeing-world-radar https://web.archive.org/web/20210418114757/https://www.tesla... What was the famous line in 1984? We were always at war with Eastasia.
  - nwiswell 5y ago
    > Its pretty funny watching this in realtime Yes, Streisanding your disregard for public safety is hilarious. Elon should do prime-time comedy. Hey wait a minute...
kunai 5y ago
While humans driving is ludicrous and it's insane how little we train drivers for it, one thing it does make easy is assigning accountability to the liable party in the case of an accident or some other catastrophic failure. Tesla's "self-driving" burns that line into thin air, and also misleads drivers into a false sense of security. Musk needs to own up to that, because in the absence of a clear way to see who's at fault, the onus is on him to clear the air and he hasn't.
- cyanydeez 5y ago
  humans understand corner cases, which are basically infinite when it comes to momentum chnages and obstacle detection.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    Have you ever observed humans drive?
  - Aicy 5y ago
    Humans have a minimum 150ms response time, which in many corner causes is too high

protoax 5y ago

Agreed, imagine paying thousands of dollars for a software product that is never delivered and continues to be pushed forward to the next year for five years running - it's unbelievable a solid case hasn't been brought against the company. Only a performer like Musk with such an influence on his fans could pull something like that off.

science4sail 5y ago
What about Star Citizen? * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14319340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14319340 [5 years ago] * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17553371 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17553371 [3 years ago] * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27628957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27628957 [6 months ago]
- nautilius 5y ago
  Wow I didn’t realize it costs thousands of dollars!
  - wilg 5y ago
    You can certainly spend thousands of dollars on Star Citizen if you'd like! https://starcitizen.tools/List_of_pledge_vehicles https://starcitizen.tools/List_of_pledge_vehicles

a9h74j 5y ago

Not a lawyer, but don't "excusable" errors done for profit enter the legal category of fraud?

readonthegoapp 5y ago
Tesla is not capable of fraud. Nikola on the other hand...

wilg 5y ago

I mean all of these are missed deadlines or estimates, not lies, right?

archsurface 5y ago
Every few months over six years - he'd have to be an incredibly slow learner for that to have been just poor estimates all along.
- wilg 5y ago
  Why?